Beastpack - changes

I've looked at the beastpack and I found some changes that should be discussed.

Limited to 12 models: Bye bye 25+ models beaststar, which in my opinion is a good thing for the environment.
Flocks are now Swarms and WS2... it makes them more fragile and less efficient.
Khymera are now T4 and Daemons. It can be dangerous while facing GK or any Inquisition type list.
Clawfiends can be taken without the BM tax. They have Rage.
All Beastmasters can take specific melee weapons, not only one.

Some ideas:

X clawfiends + 1 Archon WWP / shadowfield 2++
Unit is majority T5, 3 HP per model, and can be DS anywhere.

X beastmasters all equiped with agonisers: Moving 12", Beast, shooting X2 poison (4+) shots, assaulting and wounding on 4+ AP3 when in combat. ---> i guess this will be FAQed one day or another.

Multiple units of X khymera, harrassing the opponent or used as a bait (cheap disposable units, with a real threatening value against the opponent).

IMO flocks must be associated with Khymera or Fiends due to their lack of toughness, but they will never be as good as before.

Your opinion?

I seem to be noticing something I'll add to this.
There doesn;t appear to be any requirement to take Beastmasters at all. Sure it will result in a low Ld unit, but you COULD just take th Beatss without Beastmasters.
Maybe stick a Fearless IC in there instead......


Edit: Hold on a mo.....are Beasts Bulky? Can I take say, a Haemonculus or Archon, put him in a unit of Beasts, and stick that lot in a Raider?!

Edit 2: I';ve checked....they're not! 1 Archon or Haemonculus, plus maybe 9 Clawed Fiends? In a Raider....?!

except beasts cant embark transports...

The are not, but they are Type : Beasts, and only infantry can raid in a vehicle.

As for the all Beast Master unit it will cost to much (35pts. per model) and they got only 1 attack (no pistol).

I like fiends will a little group of khymera in front so they have a bit of save at the begining.

Well I have 20 Khymerae's dont know if I want use them anymore, I will try to use them in 2 9's with 1 beast master and have some fast moving treat units for cheap.

I would say the biggest shift is that Beastmasters are no longer characters - that changes a lot of things.

Probably less birds and more Clawed Fiends is the new plot in my opinion. Also less Beastmasters.

Not really seeing any use for Beasts now, sadly. Fiends are still crap, Flocks are now crap, Khymerae are too fragile to actually get into combat with enough numbers to make a difference.

Maybe, just maybe, you could make a case for a unit of Khymerae as a distraction and to tie an enemy unit in combat for one turn, hopefully allowing another of our so-called assault units to attack without suffering the I penalty for charging into terrain (as apparently, only the Imperium ever thought of giving grenades to anyone who might need them). Chances are though that the dogs will be shot to hell, fail a morale check and be long gone before they even see the enemy.

As you may have gathered, I'm not too enamored with the new Beasts.

Thor665 wrote:

I would say the biggest shift is that Beastmasters are no longer characters - that changes a lot of things.

I totally missed this and wish that no one would've ever told me different.

Totally agree with the Count's assessment of the new Beasts.  There is no reason to take them now.  If you want T5 S5 close combat, Grots and Sslyths are both better and both do more damage.  Razorwings are horrible now.  If you want Rending, Reavers are now far superior.  Khymera were so great before because of their 4++ and large numbers, which are both gone.  It won't take long for an opponent to wipe out 12 (max!) 5++ T4 models.  They only way Beasts are competitive now is in the three way competition between them, Hellions, and Wyches for worst unit in the new codex.

Wyches, Hellions, and Mandrakes are all easily worse than Beasts. I'd dare say Voidravens are also.

Bloodbrides are probably the worst thing in the codex right now though, if I had to cast my vote.
So yay for the Mandrakes!

Good points, Thor.  I totally forgot about Bloodbrides.  And yeah, Mandrakes are still pretty bad as well.  Haven't tried to new Voidraven but i assume it's on your list because of its point cost?

1 man Khymerae holding objectives... enough said

Thor665 wrote:

I would say the biggest shift is that Beastmasters are no longer characters - that changes a lot of things.

Can you imagine if they were? Chaos would have a field day!

I have had a Chaos player do exactly that to me, it really wasn't that bad, a lot of the time you wiped the enemy squad before it's even an issue.

I still see a place for small beast squads, especially with the new clawed fiends. Beasts are fast and effective. Personally I would run:

2 beastmasters, 2 clawfiends - 80pts

The two beastmasters give you the leadership and majority weapon skill 4, its cheap an cheerful chaff unit that is mobile, ignorable and not bad in assault. Hell I would even consider running solo fiends, that way their terrible moral becomes irrelevant most of the time (or 1 fiend + 1 beastmaster).

One use for a small beast pack could be support assault. Let the pack assault first and take overwatch and then assault with the other unit. If a beast actually makes it then you wont either need for the second unit to have grenades (if enemy unit is in terrain).

Scorpion wrote:

One use for a small beast pack could be support assault. Let the pack assault first and take overwatch and then assault with the other unit. If a beast actually makes it then you wont either need for the second unit to have grenades (if enemy unit is in terrain).

Fairly sure I suggested that in my post

As for Mush's Clawed Fiends, I'm really not feeling them at all! A 30 point model with (basically) no armour, no ranged attack and that doesn't even kill a single Marine on the charge? I'll pass thanks.

How about a small pack of Beastmasters w/ Agonizers? Like 4 or 5 (140/175). For about the price of a Grot unit sans Raider, you have a unit that can go monster hunting.

PainReaver wrote:

How about a small pack of Beastmasters w/ Agonizers? Like 4 or 5 (140/175). For about the price of a Grot unit sans Raider, you have a unit that can go monster hunting.

Very, very fragile unit.

still 35pts for T3 model with 5+ and W1 is too much.

And landborn MCs are no problem to DE anyhow. Perhaps with 2+ they are but then the ago is no help ether.

PainReaver wrote:

How about a small pack of Beastmasters w/ Agonizers? Like 4 or 5 (140/175). For about the price of a Grot unit sans Raider, you have a unit that can go monster hunting.

I guess it depends on what else you have on the table. But if I was, let's say an Eldar player with WK ou a Tyranids player, you can be sure that unit would be my priority and T3 5+ won't last more than a single shooting phase.

Count Adhemar wrote:

PainReaver wrote:

How about a small pack of Beastmasters w/ Agonizers? Like 4 or 5 (140/175). For about the price of a Grot unit sans Raider, you have a unit that can go monster hunting.

Very, very fragile unit.

I know, it's super fragile. Basically use them like Hellions. Jump from cover to cover kind of deal.

I can second the critical analyses of beasts.
Restricted to 12, bad thing.
No numbers required, good thing.
Loss of special rules, bad thing.

Maybe Razorwing Flocks might still be useful if you invest in Ld debuff. Together with fear now on Kymerae you might be hitting on 3+.

But as you see I'm stretching already to get the unit useful.
FnP would have been great in this unit as it stacks to any other save. Your beastmasters can get it but then you might as well field Hellions...