1st Game in a while (since start of 8th) against 1000 Sons

Greetings Denizens,
Since Nurgle's "blessing" is slowly brought back under control in my country, I am planning my first 9ed game (I also only had 1 8ed game) vs his sons of Magnus.

EDIT: 2000 points

After some thoughts I settled for 2 patrols: one poison Tongue and one cursed blade.


++ Patrol Detachment ++

Obsession: Kabal of the Poisoned Tongue: The Serpent's Kiss

+ HQ +

Archon: Agoniser, Blast Pistol, Consummate Weaponmaster, Overlord, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Warlord
. Splintered Genius

+ Troops +

10 Kabalite Trueborn
. 2x Blaster
. 1x Dark Lance
. Trueborn Sybarite: Agoniser, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

2x
10 Kabalite Warriors
. 2x Blaster
. 1x Dark Lance
. Sybarite: Agoniser, Phantasm Grenade Launcher


+ Elites +

5 Incubi
. Klaivex: Demiklaives

+ Fast Attack +

5 Scourges
. 4x Heat Lance

5 Scourges
. 4x Shredder


+ Heavy Support +

Ravager: 3x Dark Lance, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

+ Dedicated Transport +

3x
Raider: Chain-snares, Disintegrator Cannon, Grisly Trophies, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter racks


2x
Venom: Chain-snares, Grisly Trophies, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon


++ Patrol Detachment ++

Obsession: Cursed Blade

+ HQ +

Succubus: *???* (Combat Drug), Competitive Edge, Stratagem: Tolerated Ambition,
. The Triptych Whip & Archite Glaive
. Show Stealer (Strife): Show Stealer

+ Troops +

10 Hekatrix Bloodbrides:  Grave Lotus (Combat Drug)
. Hekatrix: Agoniser, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter Pistol
.. 10x Hekatrix Bloodbride: 1 Hydra, 1 Razorflails, 1 Shardnet and Impaler


+ Fast Attack +

9 Reavers: Splintermind (Combat Drug)
. Arena Champion: Agoniser, Splinter Rifle
.. 8x Reavers, 3 Heat-Lances


+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider: Chain-snares, Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Your thoughts?

Stupid little Intervention: The Archon cant carry the PGL anymore.

No? Oh darn. Thanks!

You're fine to take it if you and your gaming group are good with "legends" units

Couple ideas:

First off, I'd nix some of those extra upgrades on the raiders/venoms. You're inflating their cost way too much by loading up on the extra goodies, which can be useful but I'd restrict yourself to 1 5pts upgrade per transport. Chain snares in particular aren't worth it, while grisly trophies are great for incubi transports, and I like shock prows for the strat. Also, the heyday of the dissie cannon has passed, I always run dark lances now on raiders.

Don't particularly like the 10 man kabalite unit. Trueborn with the blasters and dark lance are great because they don't care about move+shoot penalties, normal kabalites less so. I'd split them into 2 5 mans, with or without the blasters, sometimes just 5 mans with no upgrades can be useful for screening/action monkies.

I'd try and fit in another wych unit if possible. Wyches are great but die easy, I don't like having only 1 unit. They can take the spot of those the kabalites in the raider. To get the pts, drop that second venom it's doing nothing now that we've gained extra transport capacity for characters.

Lastly I prefer BH or OB over PT for kabals. Not that PT is bad, the strat is incredibly useful but I'd rather have the rerolls for more reliable dark lance shots.

Sadly, I just own 10 wyches. That's it.

But when lances are better, how do I kill mass marine infantry?
The Dissie is still better in that role, right?

Hmm, splitting them to 5 men units is a nice idea but isn't losing out on the lances bad?

One of the biggest tricks for Thousand Sons is their Cult of Duplicity teleport psykic power. They can teleport a Leviathan dreadnaught 9" from you first turn with that ability.

They can also do a bunch of Summoning tricks, bringing whatever toolbox unit they want (if they have the points)

Would really really recommend taking a unit of Mandrakes to screen out that nonsense. Plus the unit helps you score ROD/All Fronts. A serious MVP for the army (just dont expect them to live if they get targetted).

Ive been rolled by that list a few times now (at 2K points though), and HAD to start including Mandrakes for this very reason :/

CptMetal wrote:

But when lances are better, how do I kill mass marine infantry?

Off the top of my head:

Shooting:
- Disintegrators are definitely an option.
- PT Splinter Cannons are AP-1 D2 but the lack of shots is significant (my advice would be to use them if you're including Venoms but don't bother adding extras as dedicated anti-marine weapons)
- You've also got weapons like Ossefactors, which are D2 but single-shot.

Melee:
- Incubi are probably the best option in terms of melee. A 5-man squad should be able to plough their way through 7-8 Marines in the first combat round.
- Hellions are also strong and a Cursed Blade squad with Adrenelight should kill 4-5 Marines on the charge (5-6 once they get +1 to hit from PfP).
- Wyches are also worth considering. A 5-man squad (same loadout as the Hellions) will only kill ~2 Marines on the charge, but that's bare-bones and without even factoring in their shooting or potential Mortal Wounds from the CB ability.
(A larger Wych unit will probably be more effective as it will give you access to Wych weapons).
- Reavers are Hellions with D1 weapons, though they can potentially toss out a few Mortal Wounds on the charge.
- Grotesques, if you're using Coven (a squad of 3 should kill 4-5 Marines on the charge).
- You've also got character options like the Triptych Whip Succubus or Djin Blade Archon.

IMO (as you can probably guess from the above) melee is the way to go as most of our shooting just isn't very efficient against Marines. The Disintegrator is probably still the best ranged weapon but that unfortunately competes with the Dark Lance.

I could be wrong but my instinct is that you'll struggle to win a shooting war against Marines, and so you're probably better off using shooting to soften them up or try and remove key units, whilst your melee units do the real work.

CptMetal wrote:

Hmm, splitting them to 5 men units is a nice idea but isn't losing out on the lances bad?

Dark Lances are very good but they're also very expensive when you're only hitting 50% of the time, and not moving will make it awkward for the other Warriors to bring their weapons to bear.

(Trueborn are the exception, of course, as they can move and fire their Dark Lance without penalty.)

I would not expect to see much massed Marines these days. With the change to Thin Ranks (now called Purge the Enemy?) they give up a lot of secondary points.

If they go mass infantry, it actually makes our lives easier.

Incubi are just an all-around great unit. Cheap, fast, punchy. Put Draz nearby, and they can rip thru tanks like its going out of style.

fisheyes wrote:

I would not expect to see much massed Marines these days. With the change to Thin Ranks (now called Purge the Enemy?) they give up a lot of secondary points.

If they go mass infantry, it actually makes our lives easier.

Incubi are just an all-around great unit. Cheap, fast, punchy. Put Draz nearby, and they can rip thru tanks like its going out of style.

What changes? I wasn't aware of them.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

CptMetal wrote:

But when lances are better, how do I kill mass marine infantry?

Off the top of my head:

Shooting:
- Disintegrators are definitely an option.
- PT Splinter Cannons are AP-1 D2 but the lack of shots is significant (my advice would be to use them if you're including Venoms but don't bother adding extras as dedicated anti-marine weapons)
- You've also got weapons like Ossefactors, which are D2 but single-shot.

Melee:
- Incubi are probably the best option in terms of melee. A 5-man squad should be able to plough their way through 7-8 Marines in the first combat round.
- Hellions are also strong and a Cursed Blade squad with Adrenelight should kill 4-5 Marines on the charge (5-6 once they get +1 to hit from PfP).
- Wyches are also worth considering. A 5-man squad (same loadout as the Hellions) will only kill ~2 Marines on the charge, but that's bare-bones and without even factoring in their shooting or potential Mortal Wounds from the CB ability.
(A larger Wych unit will probably be more effective as it will give you access to Wych weapons).
- Reavers are Hellions with D1 weapons, though they can potentially toss out a few Mortal Wounds on the charge.
- Grotesques, if you're using Coven (a squad of 3 should kill 4-5 Marines on the charge).
- You've also got character options like the Triptych Whip Succubus or Djin Blade Archon.

IMO (as you can probably guess from the above) melee is the way to go as most of our shooting just isn't very efficient against Marines. The Disintegrator is probably still the best ranged weapon but that unfortunately competes with the Dark Lance.

I could be wrong but my instinct is that you'll struggle to win a shooting war against Marines, and so you're probably better off using shooting to soften them up or try and remove key units, whilst your melee units do the real work.

CptMetal wrote:

Hmm, splitting them to 5 men units is a nice idea but isn't losing out on the lances bad?

Dark Lances are very good but they're also very expensive when you're only hitting 50% of the time, and not moving will make it awkward for the other Warriors to bring their weapons to bear.

(Trueborn are the exception, of course, as they can move and fire their Dark Lance without penalty.)

Hm, good point. Maybe I can spare enough points to upgrade the incubbi venom to a raider and put another 5 men squad of them in it.