Posts : 1034 Join date : 2011-11-23 Location : Vancouver BC
Subject: Multiple Voidraven bombers Mon Aug 30 2021, 20:54
WHAT KIND OF LISTS, STRATEGIES etc DO YOU THINK WILL WORK WITH MULTIPLE BOMBERS? Do we go for more board control or pure in your face killing? A mix tac list? Other? What are your thoughts?
So I have been thinking about running multiple Voidraven bombers in a competitive list. 2 would be ideal, but 3 honestly doesn't seem terrible either.
I would like to know what you terribly evil archons think about this and what kind of list would you run with them?
Lances or scythes?
Would you take poison tongue to give more deployment options and that allows you to put them in reserve or redeploy them of it seems like your opponent can take them out before they get to drop their bombs.
Do you take Blackheart to make the lances more accurate and forgo the poison tongue redeploy shinnagans?
What kind of support and list do we write to go with them? Do we want a bunch of coven to hold the table like cronos, talos, wracks or wrack blobs etc. Or go lots of wych cult like, bikes, hellions, wyches in boats etc. We want some incubi lots or lost them? Haha
Lets figure this out.
I am leaning towards poison tongue (PT) because I love having deployment options. And after that I have leaned more into faster cult units like bikes, some hellions, PT transports with wyches, incubi, possibly a small court etc. I have also been thinking that I maybe need extra AT on the table to be able to kill enemy vehicles that have a good chance of hurting my flyers and transports.
But there is something to be said for coven cronos and maybe min grots and/or msu wracks or a wrack blob to help hold the table and be more durable, while allowing me to redeploy the less durable PT units if need be.
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Last edited by colinsherlow on Tue Sep 14 2021, 17:04; edited 1 time in total
sekac Wych
Posts : 744 Join date : 2017-06-03
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Tue Aug 31 2021, 06:26
I've been wanting to find a way to put voidravens in a list and the best way to support them so a list i very much want to try is:
++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [69 PL, 11CP, 1,380pts] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Obsession: Kabal of the Poisoned Tongue: The Serpent's Kiss
+ Flyer + Voidraven Bomber [9 PL, 195pts]: Kabal . Two dark scythes: 2x Dark scythe Voidraven Bomber [9 PL, 195pts]: Kabal . Two dark scythes: 2x Dark scythe
++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [31 PL, -3CP, 620pts] ++ Obsession: Cult of Strife: The Spectacle of Murder (Restricted) Stratagem: Prizes from the Dark City [-1CP]
The idea would be to load 10 wyches, 5 incubi and a character in the Tantalus, then 2 more units of incubi, 5 more wyches, and the 3 remaining characters in the 3 venoms.
Hide the venoms, hellions, mandrakes, and warriors which should be easy to do. Deploy the bombers and tantalus aggressively. If you go second, put the bombers in reserve and whatever is best for the tantalus--reserves or just a conservative deployment. But if you go first, you can redeploy the 3 venoms aggressively and move all 4 transports 16" forward while the bombers bomb and fly off the board. Between the tantalus and the bombers it has 24 S8 AP-4 D2 shots which goes right around the new ramshackle quite nicely and those bombers can get angles on those stupid no LoS buggies.
I just need to buy a Tantalus, then I can try it out...
fisheyes Klaivex
Posts : 2150 Join date : 2016-02-18
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Tue Aug 31 2021, 13:06
IMO the Voidraven build is probably our strongest build right now. 2 or 3 are both good, the more D6 you roll the more reliable they are
I think that PT is basically required if your running this build. So many eggs in one basket, if you go up against a double Trueborn player you will likely lose 2 VRBs first turn. Other armies can also do this.
I dont think they really require much support, which is one of their strengths. I would build something around not giving up too many VPs to Bring It Down (since each VRB is worth 2), but also having a strong table top presense (so boats filled with boys+girls, maybe some Wracks).
The new GK and Thousand Sons put out a good amount of MWs, which our VRBs wont like very much. Something to keep in mind if they become Meta.
Zenotaph Hekatrix
Posts : 1203 Join date : 2014-04-22 Location : Munich/Bavaria
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Tue Aug 31 2021, 13:45
Our best choice to deal with MW would be coven, I think. But time will tell...
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colinsherlow Hekatrix
Posts : 1034 Join date : 2011-11-23 Location : Vancouver BC
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Tue Aug 31 2021, 18:05
This is a first draft of a double bomber list.
I have points left. Debating on adding a few hellions or something else?
Scourges [5 PL, 80pts] . Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder . Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder . Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder . Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder . Solarite: Shardcarbine
+ Flyer +
Voidraven Bomber [9 PL, 185pts]: Kabal . Two void lances
Voidraven Bomber [9 PL, 185pts]: Kabal . Two void lances
Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
I have 68pts left...
_________________ There are two things that I love. Kicking ass and chewing bubble gum... And I'm allllll out of bubble gum!
Zenotaph Hekatrix
Posts : 1203 Join date : 2014-04-22 Location : Munich/Bavaria
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Tue Aug 31 2021, 18:28
Why dont you add some Wyches? 10 instead 5 and add some special weapons. Or some additional equipment? Grizzly trophies work well with Incubi, for example.
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colinsherlow Hekatrix
Posts : 1034 Join date : 2011-11-23 Location : Vancouver BC
Why dont you add some Wyches? 10 instead 5 and add some special weapons. Or some additional equipment? Grizzly trophies work well with Incubi, for example.
I thought about extra wyches, but I don't have enough transport space unless I wanted to walk a unit. But I am thinking that I might take another succubus for another muder machine which seems like not a bad choice atm. I'd like the list to have a little more board control, but I think it might be good enough as well.
_________________ There are two things that I love. Kicking ass and chewing bubble gum... And I'm allllll out of bubble gum!
What is everyones thoughts on tactics with bombers a lists that work well with them? Board control maybe with a Court or two, hellions, wracks, cronos?
Raider rush with solid CC units like wyches, incubi etc.
Other?
_________________ There are two things that I love. Kicking ass and chewing bubble gum... And I'm allllll out of bubble gum!
What is everyones thoughts on tactics with bombers a lists that work well with them? Board control maybe with a Court or two, hellions, wracks, cronos?
Raider rush with solid CC units like wyches, incubi etc.
Other?
I'd say probably a raider rush melee list. The best way to minimize the potential damage of multiple Voidraven bombs is to spread the army out (or reserve important units). So build a list that punishes them for spreading out so either choice is wrong.
If they clump up, they get bombed hard. If they spread out, isolate groups from eachother so there's no mutual support and pick them off.
Zenotaph Hekatrix
Posts : 1203 Join date : 2014-04-22 Location : Munich/Bavaria
As you said, the VRB force the opponent to spread out, making them easy pickings for "trade up" CC units (Incubi, Wyches, Hellions, etc).
As always, planning and positioning are key. Still very easy to lose a big chunk of your list if your not careful, or suddenly realize your not holding any Points
duckduckgoose Hellion
Posts : 90 Join date : 2020-10-06
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Sun Oct 10 2021, 23:05
Been reading back through this thread and I think using VRB’s to force your opponent to spread out, and then rushing them with melee units could be nice. Here’s my take:
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Tue Oct 12 2021, 13:20
Ill just remind you again, part of the VRB plan is to run them as Poison Tongue.
If you go Second, there is a high likelihood that you will lose both your VRBs on Turn 1 before they do anything. Flyers cant even hide behind Obscuring. You can mitigate this with the PT strat, where your able to place them into reserves AFTER its decided who goes First/Second.
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colinsherlow Hekatrix
Posts : 1034 Join date : 2011-11-23 Location : Vancouver BC
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Tue Oct 12 2021, 20:50
Definitely not a bad list, but yeah what fisheyes said about them beinf poison tongue is true. I love blackheart, but it just doesn't work well with bombers.
_________________ There are two things that I love. Kicking ass and chewing bubble gum... And I'm allllll out of bubble gum!
duckduckgoose Hellion
Posts : 90 Join date : 2020-10-06
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Tue Oct 12 2021, 21:38
Good point about PT. If I ever buy some bombers I will keep that in mind!
duckduckgoose Hellion
Posts : 90 Join date : 2020-10-06
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Thu Oct 14 2021, 06:19
So actually how does insidious misdirection benefit VRB’s. I understand being able to put them into reserves, but then on the turn they come in they can’t move so aren’t they just as vulnerable as in battle round 1?
colinsherlow Hekatrix
Posts : 1034 Join date : 2011-11-23 Location : Vancouver BC
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Sat Oct 16 2021, 04:11
It gives you time to maybe deal with what could shoot them from the sky and lets them at least shoot their main guns. Plus you can maybe put them out of harms way when they do get deployed. Plus by then we will hopefully be shoving our assault units into the enemy face so they will have other things to worry about by then. It makes a big difference
_________________ There are two things that I love. Kicking ass and chewing bubble gum... And I'm allllll out of bubble gum!
fisheyes Klaivex
Posts : 2150 Join date : 2016-02-18
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Mon Oct 18 2021, 12:51
If you go second, it basically works like this:
Pregame -Take your 2 VRB off the table, put into reserve. Redeploy a 3ed unit, generally a Raider to a more protected spot
Turn 1 -Opponent moves up, gets into position to start doing their pew-pew or stabby-stab -You play defensive, since you are scoring at the END of turn 5. Move 1-2 units up if there is a weakness you can exploit, JSJ with your Trueborn to take out a big target
Turn 2 -Opponent starts the rumble, engaging with their shooting/punching units. -You now have advance+charge, and the opponent is already neck deep in your buisness. Start stabbing all the things that want to shoot, and shoot the things that want to be stabbed. Your VRB come in to help with the shooting, and hopefully the things that want to shoot them are dealing with Wyches crawling all over them
You wont get to do your Void Mine this turn, but at least your alive to give the opponent head aches. If you get First Turn, then you proceed as normal. But with Poison Tongue, at least you have a play for going Second besides "clench every muscle in your body and hope for the best" XD
Zenotaph Hekatrix
Posts : 1203 Join date : 2014-04-22 Location : Munich/Bavaria
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Mon Oct 18 2021, 13:11
Do not forget: You can only redeploy PT units. That doesnt affect the transported units, but the transports themselves and the Voidravens must be Poisoned Tongue.
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fisheyes Klaivex
Posts : 2150 Join date : 2016-02-18
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Wed Oct 20 2021, 13:13
Correct, you can redeploy a PT Raider filled with Incubi and CoS Wyches, so long as the Raider is PT
Zenotaph Hekatrix
Posts : 1203 Join date : 2014-04-22 Location : Munich/Bavaria
Subject: Re: Multiple Voidraven bombers Wed Oct 20 2021, 16:04
Its the little things, we need to remind us. Like a brilliant strategist once said: We are prepared for anything... Except the things, we didnt think of.
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When I'm good, I'm very, very good. But when I'm bad I'm better.
Subject: Multiple Voidraven bombers 
Mon Aug 30 2021, 20:54
what he says!! 
