1250pt Army Against Space Marines

The title pretty much describes it all, so:

HQ
Archon (Webway Portal, Shadowfield, Huskblade, Soul-Trap, Haywire Grenades) 175pts

Lelith Hesperax 175pts

Troops
9 Warriors (1 Blaster, Sybarite w/Power Weapon & splinter pistol) 116pts

10 Warriors (1 Blaster, 1 Dark Lance, Sybarite w/Agoniser & splinter pistol) 160pts

Elites
9 Hekatrix Bloodbrides (2 Hydra Gauntlets, 1 Razorflails, Syren w/Power Weapon) 167pts

5 Incubi (Klaivex) 125pts

Dedicated Transport
2 Raiders 120pts

Heavy Support
Ravager 105pts
Ravager (3 Disintegrator Cannons) 105pts


Normally I wouldn't bother with Sybarites in the Warrior units, but against Space Wolves and Blood Angels they'll probably see a little combat.
The Raiders will be carrying in both of the Warrior units, and the Archon is going with the unit that has just 9 models. Go in, shoot some things, and drop the portal for Lelith and the combat units.

Sulphunet wrote:

Archon (Webway Portal, Shadowfield, Huskblade, Soul-Trap, Haywire Grenades) 175pts

One of these days I'll understand the desire behind putting WWPs on Archons.
By definition, using the WWP will slow down and hinder the ability for this character to get into assault.
By definition, you want this character to be in assault asap to make him worth taking since his Huskblade combo takes time to hit its stride.
Problem?
Yes.

Sulphunet wrote:

Lelith Hesperax 175pts

Meh, especially with that Archon I think this is a bad combo. I'd frankly take a Haem w. a WWP and then keep either Lelith or the uber Archon, but not both.

Sulphunet wrote:

Troops
9 Warriors (1 Blaster, Sybarite w/Power Weapon & splinter pistol) 116pts

You're paying 20 points for 3 power weapon attacks that will hit on a 4+ and wound on a 5+ versus MEQ.
You're doing this with the belief the Wolves will assault you.
Is 20 points really worth it for maybe killing one Space Wolf when they charge and wipe out the squad? Feels like you could get +2 Wyches for the same points and overall be better off - certainly feels like something better could be there.
Also, are these guys joining the Archon in WWP deploying and assault, or staying behind? It really makes a difference in what you should be bringing.

Sulphunet wrote:

10 Warriors (1 Blaster, 1 Dark Lance, Sybarite w/Agoniser & splinter pistol) 160pts

Now you're paying 30 points (though with a slightly better chance to kill Wolves)
But this squad looks like it's built to sit in the back and be a sniper.

Okay, look, even if the Sybarite upgrade was a good idea - certainly you want the better weapon upgrade on the squad that will have the Archon with it, because even if they are staying in their Raider they are going to be much more at risk to be assaulted than the squad that will be sitting back in your deployment zone shooting with a dark lance, yeah? I'd at least switch the Agoniser and PW around (frankly I'd take neither)

Sulphunet wrote:

Elites
9 Hekatrix Bloodbrides (2 Hydra Gauntlets, 1 Razorflails, Syren w/Power Weapon) 167pts

This is an okay build - though if you're running them with Lelith it might be well worth it to spam Razorflails - because 4 Razorflails equates to annoyed enemies.

Sulphunet wrote:

5 Incubi (Klaivex) 125pts

These are okay - you'll need to avoid assaulting into/through cover though, as otherwise they'll be pretty questionable versus Wolves.

Sulphunet wrote:

Dedicated Transport
2 Raiders 120pts

Okay, though I would have taken FFs even if just to help protect me turn 1 if the Wolves win 1st turn.

Sulphunet wrote:

Heavy Support
Ravager 105pts
Ravager (3 Disintegrator Cannons) 105pts

Okay.


Looking at the list overall I see a few points of concern.

1. Lack of ability to hurt vehicles.
- The Archon if he triggers the Soul Trap
- 2 Blasters
- 6 Lances (on 4 shooting platforms...one of which has a Blaster)

Basically you have 5 units capable of shooting and hurting vehicles, and one unit, if lucky, can eventually assault and hurt them. If your opponent brings more than 3 vehicles to the game I kinda of feel you're auto doomed to lose.

2. Over expensive HQs - you built a 1250 list with 350 invested in two models. That's almost 1/3 of your entire army...are they really worth that? I would strongly advise dropping one of them and getting a ton of extra points to take more/better rounded units.

3. Some point burn on 'in case of' expenditures. Yeah, I'm dinging on the Sybs again, but you're burning 50 points overall to buy wargear for a situation (BA or SW assaulting you) that if it does happen, all those points will get you is a dead squad, but maybe one more wound done in the combat...whoo-hoo(?). I'd rather see those fifty points put into stuff that is going to hurt your enemies every turn, that's a better way to spend them. 50 points is basically halfway to having another Ravager, or getting an RJB squad, or fielding more Wyches. For 50 points you can basically drop the Archon, get a Haem with a WWP, and then have 150 points to buy an entire new unit of things that will stomp Marine face in.

Those are my thoughts, hope they help,
Thor.

I would like to point out I mentioned getting rid of the Sybarites already.

Now, normally I don't even include Lelith in the army. I usually have an Archon and a Haemonculous, which is why I posted this list here before trying it. The Bloodbrides are also a new choice for me, usually normal Wyhes are included instead, along with Reavers.

I know the Raiders, and possibly Ravagers too, need some sort of protection and I'll be revising this list a little bit.

Sulphunet wrote:

I would like to point out I mentioned getting rid of the Sybarites already.

No worries, I'm just trying to steer you in that direction even more by explaining specifically why they should go

Sulphunet wrote:

Now, normally I don't even include Lelith in the army. I usually have an Archon and a Haemonculous, which is why I posted this list here before trying it.

I have no real issues with a Lelith/Archon combo per se (though I'll admit I think your points are on the light side to afford it - i probably wouldn't personally try the combo till 2000 points or so)

My specific issue is simply that whoever has the WWP has a play style like this;
1. Thurn 1 - move forward in a Raider, disembark, deploy WWP (either alone or with whatever was in the Raider).
2. Turn 2 - move, fleet, assault if possible...or get back into Raider and have Raider take position, or just be stuck moving for position because Raider is dead.
3. Turn 3 - assault, definitely should be able to assault be this stage.

If the Archon is in the Raider without a WWP he can possible assault Turn 1, and is assured of assault Turn 2 barring the oddest situation possible. So, you're paying for an elite assault unit, and accepting that you're going to burn 1-2 rounds with him not getting into assault. I think you have too few points to afford to do that to such a potent unit and that's why I think you need a Haem in there to carry the WWP - or you adjust away from being a WWP army, either is functional.

My concern is simply having an assault character not assaulting for a period of time.

Sulphunet wrote:

The Bloodbrides are also a new choice for me, usually normal Wyhes are included instead, along with Reavers.

I'm slightly in favor of Wyches simply because they're a scoring unit, but I have no real issues with the Brides.

Sulphunet wrote:

I know the Raiders, and possibly Ravagers too, need some sort of protection and I'll be revising this list a little bit.

In a WWP army it is a touch debatable, but the big danger is if the enemy gets turn 1 and pops the Raider with the WWP in it then he will suddenly weaken the power of the army. FFs and NSs aren't proof against that danger, but they can help minimize it a touch, and since WWP armies balance winning on a razor's edge already I do usually like trying to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible

Oh yeah, I did need some help from the experienced ones. The Sybarites will be gone, and Flickerfields and/or Night Shields will be put on at least one Raider, the one with the Webway Portal anyway.

Lelith is slightly too expensive for a small list like this. Archon and Haemonculous would be a better choice for 1250pts.

I'm considering Scourges for the army, after bringing the Bloodbrides down to normal Wyches. They would provide a little more heavy support, a Heat Lance and Dark Lance would be nice.

If you want Scourges in a WWP list - I'd run them with only Heat Lances. That's 2 melta shots on the turn they arrive with a threat range of 21" around the portal edge. That's a pretty large strike range if you plop it anywhere near table center. Dark Lance seems a poor idea.

Frankly, for WWP, I'd tend to invest in HWGs first, and then focus on Wyches, makes them an all purpose threat out of the portal regardless of what is nearby..

Ok, I'm not entIrely sure what HWGs are

Haywire Grenades.