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MrBrokenAzs
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PostSubject: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 23 2012, 15:54

In a couple of weeks there will be a special tournament in my local gamestore.
The rules are
- everyone makes a codex legal army list of at least 1200 points
- you try to make the army list as weak as possible
- before the tournament you draw an army list and you'll have to try and score well with that army.

There will probably be prizes for the best general and the army list that ends last.


At first I was thinkig about taking Vect in the Dais with mandrakes, just because it would be such a big point investment. I fear however that Vect will be too powerful and that the AV13 of the Dais will pose a problem, because a lot of armies won't have any anti tank at all. I'll probably go for The Decapitator instead.

As troop choices I was thinking about 2 5 man warrior squads, a sybarite with ccw (to reduce the splinter fire) and a phantasm grenade launcher to increase their point cost, without adding a lot of real utility.

The elite slot will consist of 3 10 man trueborn squads with pistol and ccw. A dracon with a splinter rifle will make it a bit more expensive. I'm thinking about giving them haywire grenades, because I doubt there will be a lot of vehicles in the tournament. They won't get plasma grenades though, I want them at I1 if they have to charge through terrain.

Fast:
3 squads of 5 beastmasters without beasts

I'm not sure what else to add to the list. I want to keep everything on foot, because fast vehicles will be a major advantage. I also don't want to add a lot more troops if possible, to make objective based missions harder.



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Ceddyn
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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 26 2012, 18:52

This is what I've come up with so far.

Kheradruakh
Archon with haywire grenades, ghostplate armour, combat drugs, soul-trap phantasm launcher, webway portal

10 Trueborn with haywire grenades, ccw and pistol, dracon with ghostplate armour
10 Trueborn with haywire grenades, ccw and pistol, dracon with ghostplate armour
10 Trueborn with haywire grenades, ccw and pistol, dracon with ghostplate armour

5 beastmasters, 1 with a venom blade (no beasts)
5 beastmasters, 1 with a venom blade (no beasts)
5 beastmasters, 1 with a venom blade (no beasts)

5 Kabalite Warriors, sybarite with ghostplate armour, phantasm launcher, splinter pistol and ccw
5 Kabalite Warriors, sybarite with ghostplate armour, phantasm launcher, splinter pistol and ccw

Cronos Parasite Engine

This should total to 1205 points. There are a couple of choices I'm not sure about, but I can't really think of anything to make the list weaker without adding too much bodies. I fear it might still do quite good against some of the other armies. Some help or insights would be appreciated.
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Raneth
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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 26 2012, 19:19

I'm pretty sure Agonisers have the worst kill/pt ratio of all specials against chaff like basic IG. 5 Beastmasters all with Agos come in @ 160 and do absolutely jack squat.

Have fun.

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Ceddyn
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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 26 2012, 21:24

At first I was reluctant to add power weapons, but you're right: it'll barely make a difference for beastmasters. I also added an agonier to one of the kabalite squads and a power weapon to the other one. This allowed me to drop the Cronos.
Which changes the list to:

Kheradruakh
Archon with haywire grenades, ghostplate armour, combat drugs, soul-trap phantasm launcher, webway portal

10 Trueborn with haywire grenades, ccw and pistol, dracon with ghostplate armour
10 Trueborn with haywire grenades, ccw and pistol, dracon with ghostplate armour
10 Trueborn with haywire grenades, ccw and pistol, dracon with ghostplate armour

5 beastmasters, 1 with an agoniser (no beasts)
5 beastmasters, 1 with an agoniser (no beasts)
5 beastmasters, 1 with an agoniser (no beasts)

5 Kabalite Warriors, sybarite with ghostplate armour, phantasm launcher, splinter pistol and agoniser
5 Kabalite Warriors, sybarite with ghostplate armour, phantasm launcher, splinter pistol and power weapon

Total: 1200

I'm glad I got the Cronos out. I think it's high toughness would have been nasty for some of the opponents. It's ap3 flamer could have been painful too.

Some of my opponents were discussing their choices. There will be an ork player with Mad Dok Grotsnik and a boatload of gretchin with cybork bodies. A Tau player was talking about crisis suits without ranged weapons. The marine players seemed to have a hard time coming up with bad lists.
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Baron Tordeck
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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 26 2012, 22:27

Ceddyn wrote:
The marine players seemed to have a hard time coming up with bad lists.
hmm i wonder why

I feel that combat drugs on the archon is too good and that mandrakes would be "better" than trueborn.

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Unoi90
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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 26 2012, 23:45

Ceddyn wrote:

Kheradruakh
Archon with haywire grenades, ghostplate armour, combat drugs, soul-trap phantasm launcher, webway portal

10 Trueborn with haywire grenades, ccw and pistol, dracon with ghostplate armour
10 Trueborn with haywire grenades, ccw and pistol, dracon with ghostplate armour
10 Trueborn with haywire grenades, ccw and pistol, dracon with ghostplate armour

5 beastmasters, 1 with an agoniser (no beasts)
5 beastmasters, 1 with an agoniser (no beasts)
5 beastmasters, 1 with an agoniser (no beasts)

5 Kabalite Warriors, sybarite with ghostplate armour, phantasm launcher, splinter pistol and agoniser
5 Kabalite Warriors, sybarite with ghostplate armour, phantasm launcher, splinter pistol and power weapon

Total: 1200

Personally I'd remove the webway portal and the drugs to the archon! With the WWP this could be a "nasty" list with all these DEs running from the portal! Add 3-4 kabalite warrior instead of them, they'll do "better" in my opinion Razz
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MrBrokenAzs
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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 26 2012, 23:57

for an HQ, use the decapitator. Most worthless ever

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 01:56

I'd try two options, first ist simmilar to your approach. Buying expensive crap units and giving them overpriced upgrades that contradict their Battlefield role and/or each other.

HQ
Decapitator_____________________________________________________140
<-- Crap
Archon +Blaster, Blast Pistol, Haywire Grenades, Combat Drugs, Clone Field__135
<-- Can't use all of his guns and will suck in cc

Elites
Mandrakes x9 +Nightfiend__________________________________________160
Mandrakes x9 +Nightfiend__________________________________________160
Mandrakes x9 +Nightfiend__________________________________________160
<--Crap

Troops
Warriors x4 +Shredder, Sybarite, Ghostplate, Blastpistol, Agoniser___________105
Warriors x4 +Shredder, Sybarite, Ghostplate, Blastpistol, Agoniser___________105
<--ok, but too few and to much upgrades

Fast Attack
Beastmasters x5 +Agoniser__________________________________________80
Beastmasters x5 +Agoniser__________________________________________80
Beastmasters x5 +Agoniser__________________________________________80
<-- just silly
________________________________________________________________________1205

My second approach, more complex, but in my opinion more promising, would be to buy as few, as expensive models as possible and anti tank, since there will be next to no vehicles.

HQ
Decapitator_______________________________________140
<-- crap
Drazhar__________________________________________230
<-- can't join any of the units and is a T3 2+ 3W model. Even lasguns will kill him

Elites
Mandrakes x2 +Nightfiend____________________________55
Mandrakes x2 +Nightfiend____________________________55
Mandrakes x2 +Nightfiend____________________________55
<-- crap in smaller numbers

Troops
Warriors x4 +Sybarite, Ghostplate, Blastpistol, Agoniser ____100
Warriors x4 +Sybarite, Ghostplate, Blastpistol, Agoniser ____100
<-- only ok units, but fragile, on foot and to many useless upgrades

Fast Attack
Beastmasters x1 +Agoniser____________________________22
Beastmasters x1 +Agoniser____________________________22
<-- even more silly

Heavy Support
Voidraven Bomber__________________________________145
Voidraven Bomber__________________________________145
Voidraven Bomber__________________________________145
<-- ok, these aren't crap per se, but they are much too expensive and without vehicles as targets they fire their lances at infantry. Thats 435 pts for around 4 kills, if that isn't overpriced, I don't know what is.
__________________________________________________1214

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Last edited by Tiri Rana on Tue Mar 27 2012, 04:47; edited 3 times in total
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Baron Tordeck
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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 02:01

Tiri Rana wrote:
I

Elites
Mandrakes x9 +Nightfiend__________________________________________160 <--Crap
Mandrakes x9 +Nightfiend__________________________________________160
Mandrakes x9 +Nightfiend__________________________________________160
your math is off. thats the cost for a full 10 + nightfiend

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Unoi90
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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 09:30

Baron Tordeck wrote:
Tiri Rana wrote:
I

Elites
Mandrakes x9 +Nightfiend__________________________________________160 <--Crap
Mandrakes x9 +Nightfiend__________________________________________160
Mandrakes x9 +Nightfiend__________________________________________160
your math is off. thats the cost for a full 10 + nightfiend
I think he want to say "10 mandrakse, one of them is upgraded to nightfiend". I've seen many people (Especially outside Italy) writing their list in this manner Wink

But my question is:
It's a crap tournament, there will be all crap units... I think that 30 Mandrakes deploying using infiltration can be really a threat to many crap lists xD
I think that smaller groups it's better Smile (And you can use these point to add other naked warriors or naked wiches)
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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 14:28

Tiri Rana wrote:
I'd try two options, first ist simmilar to your approach. Buying expensive crap units and giving them overpriced upgrades that contradict their Battlefield role and/or each other.

HQ
Decapitator_____________________________________________________140
<-- Crap
Archon +Blaster, Blast Pistol, Haywire Grenades, Combat Drugs, Clone Field__135
<-- Can't use all of his guns and will suck in cc

Elites
Mandrakes x9 +Nightfiend__________________________________________160
Mandrakes x9 +Nightfiend__________________________________________160
Mandrakes x9 +Nightfiend__________________________________________160
<--Crap

Troops
Warriors x4 +Shredder, Sybarite, Ghostplate, Blastpistol, Agoniser___________105
Warriors x4 +Shredder, Sybarite, Ghostplate, Blastpistol, Agoniser___________105
<--ok, but too few and to much upgrades

Fast Attack
Beastmasters x5 +Agoniser__________________________________________80
Beastmasters x5 +Agoniser__________________________________________80
Beastmasters x5 +Agoniser__________________________________________80
<-- just silly
________________________________________________________________________1205

My second approach, more complex, but in my opinion more promising, would be to buy as few, as expensive models as possible and anti tank, since there will be next to no vehicles.

HQ
Decapitator_______________________________________140
<-- crap
Drazhar__________________________________________230
<-- can't join any of the units and is a T3 2+ 3W model. Even lasguns will kill him

Elites
Mandrakes x2 +Nightfiend____________________________55
Mandrakes x2 +Nightfiend____________________________55
Mandrakes x2 +Nightfiend____________________________55
<-- crap in smaller numbers

Troops
Warriors x4 +Sybarite, Ghostplate, Blastpistol, Agoniser ____100
Warriors x4 +Sybarite, Ghostplate, Blastpistol, Agoniser ____100
<-- only ok units, but fragile, on foot and to many useless upgrades

Fast Attack
Beastmasters x1 +Agoniser____________________________22
Beastmasters x1 +Agoniser____________________________22
<-- even more silly

Heavy Support
Voidraven Bomber__________________________________145
Voidraven Bomber__________________________________145
Voidraven Bomber__________________________________145
<-- ok, these aren't crap per se, but they are much too expensive and without vehicles as targets they fire their lances at infantry. Thats 435 pts for around 4 kills, if that isn't overpriced, I don't know what is.
__________________________________________________1214

Hmm...why do they have Agonisers? Laughing Agonisers are actually are best weapon give them a Poisoned Blade.
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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 14:29

wyches man... wyches!!! their 6+ save and no vehicles to get them into battle means they will be slaughtered before they make it to the opponent. Also they can be a huge point sink with the max squad of 15.

Decap- 140

195- 10 bloodbrides w/ 3 WW (your choice) syrien w/ PGL, Blast Pistol
195- 10 bloodbrides w/ 3 WW (your choice) syrien w/ PGL, Blast Pistol
195- 10 bloodbrides w/ 3 WW (your choice) syrien w/ PGL, Blast Pistol
215- 15 wyches w/ 3 WW (your choice) hekatrix w/ PGL, Blast Pistol
215- 15 wyches w/ 3 WW (your choice) hekatrix w/ PGL, Blast Pistol
41- 3 Beastmasters w 1 Venomblade

1196


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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 17:06

Decrap
Wyches 15 PGL, Haywire, PW, 3 Hydra, Blast Pistol (overcosted as hell Hekatrix)
Wyches 15 PGL, Haywire, PW, 3 Hydra, Blast Pistol
Mandrakes 9+1
Mandrakes 9+1
Cronos Siphon + Vortex
Cronos Siphon + Vortex

1190

Crappy choices, ok synergy. Will play ok against other crappy choices.

Appear, try not to die, wait till footslogging girls and monsters arrive.

If any SM take Termi or Drednaughts - call em cheaters )). They should be mass scouts army supported by techmarines and thunderfire cannons, and some speeders.
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PostSubject: Re: Creme de la crap tournament   Creme de la crap tournament I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 28 2012, 19:17

Baron Tordeck wrote:

I feel that combat drugs on the archon is too good and that mandrakes would be "better" than trueborn.
You're right on both accounts. I'll remove the drugs. Unfortunately I'm not the proud owner of 30 mandrakes (is anyone?), but I could swap out 1 trueborn squad for 10 mandrakes with nightfiend.

Unoi90 wrote:
Personally I'd remove the webway portal and the drugs to the archon! With the WWP this could be a "nasty" list with all these DEs running from the portal! Add 3-4 kabalite warrior instead of them, they'll do "better" in my opinion Razz
I think the wwp will only be an advantage in a dawn of war deployment, where it can be dropped in a nice central position. In the other deployments hel'll have to drop it on turn 1 or risk having to come in from the board edge. The army will still have to cross a large part of the table and they'll come piecemeal instead of in a wave. I don't really expect a lot of long range shooting in the other lists, so crossing the table shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Tiri Rana wrote:

My second approach, more complex, but in my opinion more promising, would be to buy as few, as expensive models as possible and anti tank, since there will be next to no vehicles.


Heavy Support
Voidraven Bomber__________________________________145
Voidraven Bomber__________________________________145
Voidraven Bomber__________________________________145
<-- ok, these aren't crap per se, but they are much too expensive and without vehicles as targets they fire their lances at infantry. Thats 435 pts for around 4 kills, if that isn't overpriced, I don't know what is.
__________________________________________________1214
I agree that they don't pose a great threat when you look at their damage potential in a tournament like this. In objective missions the bombers will be very powerful though. A lot of the other lists would have great trouble bringing one of them down, so they'd be ideal to contest.

Shadows Revenge wrote:
wyches man... wyches!!! their 6+ save and no vehicles to get them into battle means they will be slaughtered before they make it to the opponent. Also they can be a huge point sink with the max squad of 15.
Against a normal army this would indeed be the case. I don't expect a lot of long range shoting in the other army lists though. Even if less than half of the wyches survive crossing the table, they'll still slaughter stuff like close combat crisis suits or gretchin blobs. Their combat drugs will make them even deadlier against such opposition.

I think I prefer the mandrakes and assaultborn: no invul save in close combat, no combat drugs, comparable point cost.

Azdrubael wrote:

Crappy choices, ok synergy. Will play ok against other crappy choices.

Appear, try not to die, wait till footslogging girls and monsters arrive.

If any SM take Termi or Drednaughts - call em cheaters )). They should be mass scouts army supported by techmarines and thunderfire cannons, and some speeders.
But I don't want them to to do ok. One of the opponents will be playin my list. For the same reason I don't expect to see any dreads or terminators.


This is the updated list. I dropped one of the assaultborn squads for mandrakes. The archon has some more toys, although I'm not sure about the 2 guns: it's still 1 shot that kan instakill a lot of things.


HQ
Decapitator----------------------------------------140
Archon, haywire grenades, blast pistol, blaster, wwp, ghostplate, phantasm launcher---160

Elite
10 Mandrakes, nightfiend---------------------------160
10 assaultborn hwg, dracon with ghostplate---------155
10 assaultborn hwg, dracon with ghostplate---------155


Fast
5 Beastmasters, agoniser, no beasts---------------------------80
5 Beastmasters, agoniser, no beasts---------------------------80
5 Beastmasters, agoniser, no beasts---------------------------80

Troops
5 Kabalite Warriors, sybarite: launcher, ghostplate power weapon---95
5 Kabalite Warriors, sybarite: launcher, ghostplate power weapon---95




This is probably the worst list in the tournament:
Chaos Marines
-Sorcerer with 1 power (cant remember which one)
-5 chaos marines
-5 chaos marines
-as many lesser daemon squads as possible

The lesser daemons in the chaos marine codex have to start in reserve an can only enter the table near an icon. It's not mission this list will auto lose unless he can table the opponent, which would be quite a feat with about 250 points on the table.
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