BR11: The Black Buzzards VS CSM New Codex - 1500pts

Quote :

Mushkilla
I had a chat with Shadows Revenge and he came to the conclusion that the triple S8 plasma cannons is the way to go when it comes to fiends, most armies are marines, cover is not as readily available, and blasts mean ballistic skill is less relevant. S8 is huge for plasma as it get rid of many of the disadvantages, of regular plasma, not to mention it ignores FNP on marines!

Those plasma are only 24 inch range, and gets hot could take a hull point off yourself, at 175 points plus the plasma upgrade you don't want to wreck yourself. Still if you get some rines in your sight those plasma will destroy, deepstriking armies live in fear. 2 Forgefiends plus a unit of oblits would be good for HS i recon, oblits can use the assault cannon now which could be good. But then your missing out on cheap preds.

A flying DP, a unit of 3-5 nurgle bikers(T6 FNP, 3+ save) and some deep striking termies for some fast pressure. With your heavy support firebase would help keep your forgefiends safe, i couldn't say no to a chaos lord pimped out with the black mace which will explode units. So far you have a bunch of super tough high threat mobile targets.

I thought the risk of it wrecking itself would be problematic, however the chances are very slim:

Maths:
1/6 get hot!
1/2 fail the further roll to see if you take a glancing hit.
2/3 fail the daemon invulnerable save.
That's a 0.056 probability of losing a HP per cannon.
Three cannons so that's:
0.00017 probability of loosing three HP.
0.0093 probability of loosing two HP.
0.1666 probability of loosing one or more HP.
0.1572 probability of loosing only a single HP
Then at the end of your friendly turn you have a 1/3 chance of recovering a HP thanks to "it will not die".
0.1048 probability of loosing a single HP.
+ 0.0031 (for loosing two HP but regenerating one)
0.0062 probability of loosing two HP
0.00017 probability of loosing three HP.

Answer
I might have made a mistake in the maths somewhere but a rough guide line would be:

1/10 chance of loosing a single HP when firing three cannons
1/100 chance of loosing two HP when firing three cannons
1/10000 chance of loosing three HP when firing three cannons

So I don't think it's weapons overheating will be a problem. Also because it ignores stunned and shaken on a 2+ not being able to fire blasts on snapfire will only be a problem for overwatch.

I think I was a bit unclear, so I will rephrase myself I think a single forge fiend with triple plasma seems lke a good investment, sure it's 200 points.

Similar in cost to the Leman Russ Executioner (which are good in 6th), exchanging armour and range, for a invulnerable save, suppression resistance, the ability to regenerate HP, not get immobilised by difficult terrain, S8, not being hit on rear armour in assault, not getting hit automatically if it doesn't move, mobility (has fleet so can move reasonably fast if need be) and a one off ability to re-roll wounds and or penetration dice. It can also tie things up in combat if need be.

All in all the forge fiend seems like a very flexible gun platform irrespective of it's weapon load out. Maybe a hybrid approach will be good? Two hades cannons and an ectoplasm cannon, they are both S8 the only clash is their different ranges.

Thoughts?

so an old school ravager? except with different ranges ... i used that alot with good effect the differing ranges could be a bit limiting maybe

helvexis wrote:

so an old school ravager? except with different ranges ..,

And Strength 8.

Quote :

Mushkilla
All in all the forge fiend seems like a very flexible gun platform irrespective of it's weapon load out. Maybe a hybrid approach will be good? Two hades cannons and an ectoplasm cannon, they are both S8 the only clash is their different ranges.

Wow i did not know the forgefiend had 'it will not die', nor did i know it could shake off the gets hot glance on a 4+, the 24 inch ranges is the only limiting factor, but if you advance with your army since it can move and fire it has a 30 inch threat radius, 3 plasma cannons are looking lethal.

My Badab Campaign for next summer will have two CSM players in it. Suffice it to say I am not looking forward to trying to pick them apart. Back to the army drawing board!

Steffo wrote:

Wow i did not know the forgefiend had 'it will not die',

Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Defilers and Helldrakes all have: Daemonic Possession, Daemon, Daemon Forge and It Will Not Die. But for some reason the Hellbrute doesn't have any of these, which is a shame as it would have made him a more interesting option.

Steffo wrote:

nor did i know it could shake off the gets hot glance on a 4+

All vehicles can shake of gets hot on a 4+, although GW worded it as a "further roll of a 1, 2 or 3".

"For each To Hit roll of 1, the firing model immediately suffers a Wound (armour save or invulnerable saves
can be taken) - a vehicle instead suffers a glancing hit on a further roll of a 1, 2 or 3." -BRB page 37 under Gets Hot!

Steffo wrote:

but if you advance with your army since it can move and fire it has a 30 inch threat radius, 3 plasma cannons are looking lethal.

Yeah I think that's how they will be used as chaos seem like a very aggressive army. That being said you don't want that plasma scattering back onto your chaos marines though...

As always. A blast to read. Cheers!
Gotz to love the huskblade archon, I am forging a love hate relationship with it.

Skari wrote:

As always. A blast to read. Cheers!
Gotz to love the huskblade archon, I am forging a love hate relationship with it.

Thanks, and tell me about it, each time I use the huskblade or the shadwofield for that matter, I feel like Clint Eastwood is pointing a gun at me and asking me if I feel lucky.

Great game! Thanks for the report. I see I'm not the only one who thinks the huskblade is a crap shoot:)

Great stuff Mushi! I use the huskblade but what i do is also give him the venom blade and soul trap.....then i pick and choose when i use the VB and when to use the HB......so far mianly the VB is used but the HB has so much potential!
I will be keeping my Archon only becasue my favourite unit is the Incubi and he accompanies them everywhere!

@MordredBloodyhand: that's a very cool avatar, where did you find that?

Septimus wrote:

@MordredBloodyhand: that's a very cool avatar, where did you find that?

He found it here. Beckjann has a whole load of awesome Dark Eldar fan art on his deviant arts profile, well worth checking out, you will find most members use avatars created by him.

That being said could we keep the posts in this thread on topic. Thanks.

Thanks Mush.

Great win there Mush, i think you had the edge in generalship there though. I got the distinct impression he thought he was just gonna monkeystomp you with his shiny new codex. When he suicided his maulerfiend for example, i didnt get that at all.

Mud

Awesome battle report, Mushkilla, and extra coolness for taking on the new Chaos Space Marines and showcasing some of the new stuff they have to field against us. Well played, and well won, good sir, it seemed to me like a really fun and exciting game to me. Loved it.

Also, I'm really interested in your thoughts regarding the new Chaos Space Marines, and was stoked to see you had shared some of your newly gleaned musings regarding your opponent's army and the CSM army as a whole in the after action thoughts you gave.

I'm curious, actually; regarding the Chaos Space Marines army list you faced for this battle report, what would you do, if anything, to tweak it, make it better/funner/cooler/whatever? Also, how would you go about expanding upon said army, say, to the 2000 point level?

I find that I'm rather interested in the new CSM stuff, somewhat, and I actually found that I liked your opponent's army list quite a bit. With your insight into the army, what would you do with it?

Thanks for the stellar battle report, Mushkilla! I'm off to read some more...

Zhul

Zhul wrote:

I'm curious, actually; regarding the Chaos Space Marines army list you faced for this battle report, what would you do, if anything, to tweak it, make it better/funner/cooler/whatever? Also, how would you go about expanding upon said army, say, to the 2000 point level?

I find that I'm rather interested in the new CSM stuff, somewhat, and I actually found that I liked your opponent's army list quite a bit. With your insight into the army, what would you do with it?

Thanks, to be honest it was a list cobbled together on the spot to try as much new stuff as possible. So I wouldn't really be able to expand on it as it wasn't really built around anything in the first place (we didn't even delve into the sorcerous might of chaos). I would rebuild that army from scratch as in its current state its just an amalgamation of cool units.

The chaos codex has A LOT of options and most of them are viable, with helldrakes being the king of the roost. What is interesting is the possibility to run hordes of marines, and to tailor those marines very cost effectively to a given purpose, that and sorcerers, particularly ones without marks as the chaos powers are not that impressive, but having access to three powers from Telepathy, Biomancy and Pyromancy (all good laws, yes pyromancy has a place too especially as chaos sorcerers like to get stuck in) is amazing combine this with re-rolling psychic tests with a spell familiar and your on the right track to the end times!

That's great, thanks again, Mushkilla! I see, it was just sort of an army list of convenience then...well, even so, it did seem to perform decently none the less, and I think it had potential, anyway....maybe, I'm not that familiar with Chaos Space Marines yet, and I've only read through the new codex a couple of times up until now. Looks like I have some more reading to do...

For sure, it's looking like Heldrakes would be a must-have for any Chaos army list I was to build. The Baleflamer, along with all the other nasty things about the Heldrake, are just terrifying, brilliant! I'm actually interested to see you mentioning Sorcerers as well, very cool. I say this because I don't tend to see a lot of them included in many of the new CSM army lists I see popping up all over the various forums. For the most part, people seem to be sticking to a Chaos Lord (of some sort, most usually Khornate or Slaaneshi, with a smattering of Nurgle worshipers...) mounted on a Bike, either with the Black Mace or the Axe of Blind Fury, and so on. And also maybe a second Lord of the same ilk, if anything. Of course, this style Lord is pretty awesome, with killing potential obvious even to a Chaos neophyte like myself, but I really do love the new psychic power portion of this latest edition, and it would be very cool to include a powerful Sorcerer in a CSM army...

If you were to put together an army list of Chaos marines, Mushkilla, what would it possibly look like? In general, of course! I don't want to put you on the spot and have you feeling like you've got to write up a super detailed list and all, my friend...I'm just curious as to what you would do, seeing as I have insane amounts of respect for your tactical acumen and overall gaming style.

Thanks again, Mushkilla!

Zhul

I'll post a chaos list in the Warhammer 40,000 Discussion section, saves turning this old thread into a chaos list building thread, Means you can get feedback from other members too.

Perfect, thanks Mushkilla! I didn't mean to pseudo hi-jack your thread, my friend! Apologies!

I'll head on over to said forum and check it out...so much appreciated. To end on a note relevant to this thread and such, I'm stoked to see more battle reports, hopefully even with some more against the new CSM in the near future as well:)

It may have been mentioned before in one of the various battle report threads of your's, Mushkilla, or some other place, but where is it you usually get your games in? Do you have a preferred local store (GW or otherwise...) you play at, or do you have a group of friends that gets together, and so on? Perhaps even a little of both, or something else entirely? I'm just curious...I'm always interested to know other people's gaming environments, for whatever obscure reason...

Thanks, Mushkilla, looking forward to following the future exploits of the Black Buzzards!

Zhul

Zhul wrote:

Perfect, thanks Mushkilla! I didn't mean to pseudo hi-jack your thread, my friend! Apologies!

Don't worry about it, I just don't want my fellow mods to comment on how yet again one of my battle reports has turned into a Blog Page!

Zhul wrote:

Do you have a preferred local store (GW or otherwise...) you play at, or do you have a group of friends that gets together, and so on? Perhaps even a little of both, or something else entirely? I'm just curious...I'm always interested to know other people's gaming environments, for whatever obscure reason...

A real mix to be honest, friends, GW, stores and gaming clubs. At the moment though I don't really have time for proper games, this combined with wanting to play against better opponents has lead me to play my latest games online.

EDIT: I posted the list here.

Hey, sounds like a fun game, did your reaver's start with a pain token? I just see that they gained a second pain token so maybe I missed something on the first.

nevermind I see the drug

In The Dark City we try to avoid double posts (Archons' are after all natural control freaks), so in future could you please use the edit button. Thanks. - Mush (your Malevolent Moderator)

Mod hat off.

Yeah they started with the splintermind drug (extra pain token), which pretty much won me the game.

on you'r list i would drop the archy for 2succubi with hydra and hwg puting you 10 points over so drop 1 arena champ or some thing like that but thats just me