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 Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?

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Orthien
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MalysII
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MalysII
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PostSubject: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 20 2012, 20:10

hey, Archons

I'm returning to DE after a Dark Vengeance detour.
I used to have 1 Archon and 1 Succubus 20 Warriors, lots of Wyches, a venom, and 5 helions.

what do you suggest I get now?

thanks

MalysII
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Septimus
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 20 2012, 21:00

I suggest raiders. I arm mine with disintegrators - they are pretty nice for sniping models out of cover.

Haywire is the new "melta" - I find that scourges complement talos and/or a skimmer shooty army. Though I often prefer reavers as big reaver units are one of the few tough units DE get.

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Blind_Baku
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 21 2012, 00:04

BattleForce or MegaForce (if you can get it, GW's AU site only I believe). More Warriors (thus also true born and any Kabalite HQ option) and More Wyches (thus Bloodbride and any Cult HQ option) a nice shiny Raider and 3 Jetbikes for anywhere between $80 - $100something.

Has everything you need to get a feel for a solid chunk of the codex.
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MalysII
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 22 2012, 11:39

thanks for the advice, guys

any more????

am looking at the Battleforce now, will buy it next GamesDay at the NEC in the UK
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Blind_Baku
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 22 2012, 14:30

More hellions, if you use them regularly? (not sure I'd take this advice as I have not USED hellions in this codex yet. They are always run in atleast 1 big block (~12) when I see peoples lists)
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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 22 2012, 14:55

Raiders, Raiders, and more Raiders. A Ravager or three will always serve you well Twisted Evil

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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 22 2012, 21:36

I agree with ESE. You seem to have a good base for units already now you need to get them across the board quickly.
Ravagers are also well recommended. My Vote is on 2 and a Razorwing but thats just what I like to roll with.

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MalysII
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 19:20

I HAD that army.

I've just bought a box of Warriors which i will give a shredder and Splinter Cannon to and an Archon

am thinking when i get the Battle force to give the reavers a heat lace and Caltrops. any one against this idea?

Please use the Edit function in stead of double posting in the future. Thanks - Cavash.
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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 21:41

Ah sorry miss-read. It really depends how you want to play, everything we have can be viable in some kind of situation.
Battleforce is a good start point if you plan to use at least 75% of the stuff in there. If not then your better to buy them individually.
I still stand buy the 3 Ravagers/ 2 Ravager + Razorwing. A good HS line and several raider/venoms are very important unless your planning a special theme army.

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MalysII
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 21:53

WWP are what brought me in to DE last edition. I never really used then but am tempted to try them again.
As I said, I have an Archon and a box of warriors. Any ideas as to the weapon load outs of the battle force? All help is welcome. Thanks.
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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 26 2012, 01:38

WWP needs a lot of dedication and changes from how they were thanks to not being able to assault of of them. They are still great when used with cover or close range shooters.

Standard Blaster and a SC or DL depending on the role you want always works well for Warriors.
For Wyches you want to avoid the special weapons and just focus on HWG's and a Hekatrix with PGL and VB or PL.
Reavers depend on whether you want to tank hunt or mess with infantry.
Blaster/HL for preferance to AT
Bladevanes+Caltrops for AI. Maybe a Champion with VB if you need the CC boost.

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MalysII
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 28 2012, 18:38

OK, I haven't got the Battleforce Sad BUT I have got some Scourges.... Haywire Blaster and which other weapon? Splinter Cannon or Blaster OR Dark Lance?
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 28 2012, 18:41

I'd modify the other Heat Lance to look like a Heat Lance and then have two heat lances.

Here is a tutorial: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t1480-heat-lance-to-haywire-blaster-easy-conversion

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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 30 2012, 01:22

Ah, you no longer have your old models. WWP still works, for sure. The wargear box is gone so no more S6 Death Machine sergeants for 100 points, and in typical GW fashion they switched the awesomesauce Troops/Core, from Wyches to Warriors, which is a pain for Wych Cult folks - the new models may prove to tempting though, and you get some in your battleforce. Grotesques are now called Wracks, and become Troops if a Haemonculus is one of your HQ choices. Jetbikes still strong, Hellions still meh but they look way cooler, and Warp Beasts are no longer tied to Wyches, they're an FA choice now. Mandrakes got nerfed for no good reason, but they're ridiculous shadow bogeymen now in the story, and Incubi are an Elite but lost plasma grenades >_< Also Trueborn, who are like Warriors but with "veteran" weapon options. Harlequin Venoms are now a transport choice, except our Harlequins can't take vehicles... well, not the normal way, you can always GTA someone else's transport turn 1...

We have jets now. Not skimmers. JETS.

What points level are you looking to get in at? With that box of Warriors and the Battleforce and some vehicles, you should be down for 1000. If you're just looking to melt some faces in a hurry, I recommend:

Haemonculus, Webway Portal
4 Trueborn with 4 Blasters
3 Raiders with Dark Lances, each with 5 Warriors (4 Splinter Rifles, Blaster)
3 Venoms, each with 3 Wracks (a smart next purchase or an easy conversion, either way)
6 Reavers, 2 Blasters

Lots of shooting and fun with the webway portal, without too much breaking the bank! Pop your Trueborn and Warriors in the portal, have the Haemonculus start with the Reavers, leave them with a Pain Token (power from pain is awesome) and drop the portal turn 1. Shoot downfield and wait for the party to arrive!

You'll need a Haemonculus, one more Reaver kit, some extra blasters, and some vehicles (wracks too, if you leave the wyches with pistols) but these are all terrific investments.
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MalysII
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 05 2012, 13:51

my list is as follows now:

1 Archon (HB SF ST)

2x 10 Warriors (Shredder, Splinter Cannon, Syrabite with PGL and Agoniser)

5 Scourges, (Solarite with Agoniser and squad has 2 Haywire Blasters)

6 Reavers (2 Heat Lances)

am thinking of giving the archon Combat Drugs, but with only the reavers being the only unit (so far) to have drugs, is it worth it? Wych Cult, would be worth it, but this army is Kabalite, not Wych

Edit: sofar my list looks like this:

1 Archon, (HB, ST, CD, SF)

2 x10 Warriors Squads (Splinter Cannon, Shredder, Syrabite has Agoniser and Splinter Pistol and PGL)

5 Scourges (Solarite with Agoniser ans Aquad has 2 Haywire Blasters)

6 Reavers (2 Heat Lances)

5 Mandrakes (Nightfiend)

any advice as to what to get next? do i go Raider mad and get LOADS, or do i get Venoms or leave them on foot?

If you want to add more info, please use the edit button on the top right side. -Your Friendly Neighborhood Mod SR-
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 12 2012, 08:20

drop all the character upgrades. Your squads are made to shoot, dont waste points upgrading them for close combat.

Also mandrakes are terrible... how are you using them and being effective with them??? any pointers you can give???

From here I would mech up, but how depends on what you like. Both venoms and raiders have their good points and bad points, so Id say go with either a mix or the ones you like. Also a couple of ravagers and a close combat squad for that archon to go with are good choices too.

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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 12 2012, 11:22

Mandrakes: i suggest you infiltrate them next to a devatator squad and ideally out of sight, but at least 12" away. then next turn (if still alive) assualt, then a S4 AP4 Assualt 2 unit is deadlier than they were before
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 12 2012, 12:43

MalysII wrote:
Mandrakes: i suggest you infiltrate them next to a devatator squad and ideally out of sight, but at least 12" away. then next turn (if still alive) assualt, then a S4 AP4 Assualt 2 unit is deadlier than they were before

the problem is that point for point, a venom is better than them in shooting, and you dont need a pain token to get that. On top of that, S4 T3 w/ 5++ and no power weapon option dont kill anything fast, and they cant take a hit back at all.

For example, let your squad charge into a combat squad of marines (with sargie). without overwatch included, the mandrakes kill 1.332 marines, the remaining ones hit back for 1.334. So even basic marines beat you on average. They just arent worth their points.

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MalysII
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 12 2012, 13:16

we dsh out 11 attacks when charged with a nigfhtfiend, boost that to 18 attacks ON THE CHARGE, 5 man squad with overwatch against 18 attacks? plus Fear?
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 16 2012, 20:54

Shadows Revenge wrote:
drop all the character upgrades. Your squads are made to shoot, dont waste points upgrading them for close combat.

Also mandrakes are terrible... how are you using them and being effective with them??? any pointers you can give???

From here I would mech up, but how depends on what you like. Both venoms and raiders have their good points and bad points, so Id say go with either a mix or the ones you like. Also a couple of ravagers and a close combat squad for that archon to go with are good choices too.

why should i drop the sargent upgrades?
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Blind_Baku
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 16 2012, 21:24

MalysII wrote:
why should i drop the sargent upgrades?

Because your non-CC units should NEVER get into CC so it becomes a waste of points. SpaceMarines like Sgts. and they should as a Powerfist can be wonderful, and marines are tough as nails. You (as a Dark Eldar) are not tough as nails, and the Agonizers' hit with the nerf bat makes it a very expencive venomblade. Warriors are for shooting, and should generally avoid CC.

Mind you, the suggestion is limited to shooting options, for units that may see CC it is quite the opposite, wyches should always take the hekatrix with atleast a PGL.
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Archon Bruce
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 16 2012, 22:29

Mandrakes are beautiful models that require a lot of prior planning and support to be as effective as any other unit in our codex. Unfortunate, really. My advice is to get as many Reavers as you can. They are finally the awesome sauce we have always wanted them to be. Don't use caltrops. Their damage output is highly variable, and you cant take advantage of all the other cool things Reavers can do in shooting/assault if you are bladevaning.
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PostSubject: Re: Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army?   Returning to DE, any advice on a starter Army? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 17 2012, 19:04

thanks friends.

i'm looking for some Helions (20, total) and maxing out 2 warrior squads to take 2 Splinter Cannons. i'm going to get some Raiders, Venoms, Wyches (as well as the Hellions) and wondered what uses i might be able to get from the squads. i've no set points limit and will add some incubi asap (AP2 weapons are a must this ed Very Happy)
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