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redsand
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PostSubject: Different anti air   Mon Oct 29 2012, 15:15

I was wondering if any one has used an imperial bastion with Incubi? It seems that a Klaivex with a BS of 5 would do well with the quad gun.
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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Mon Oct 29 2012, 15:37

First, welcome to the forum! You've come to the right place.

Next, let me immediately shoot down the Klaivex half of this idea. BS 5 is much easier to get without using a dedicated assault unti to get it. Plus, the gun emplacement on a Bastion is twin-linked, so the improvement from BS 4, the majority BS of the army, and BS 5 is marginal, so an extra ability would be nice.

I would recommend 4 options for manning a Bastion:

1. A Haemonculus. Aftering passing off a Pain Token to a squad, the Haemy can mount up and start shooting. If they shoot at him, fine- they probably could have shot the 2W gun just as easily. BS 5 if you spring for the Ancient.
2. A unit of Wracks. Again, they can pass their Pain Token off to an Independent character.
3. An allied Exarch. Once you start adding Tank Hunter, Crack Shot, or Fast Shot to your gun, the investment in points for a better gunner pays off. Fire Dragons give you the first two and Dark Reapers give you the last two. BS 5
4. An allied Company Command Squad. BS 4 and they can take Master of the Fleet to delay the enemy's fliers. Not bad!

Speaking of allies, the Bastion is a solid way to hide a unit with Indiect Fire, which lets desperate allies pull their weight from safe distance and adds long range shooting to your arsenal. Specifically, the Hydra Flak Tank doubles your anti-air power, and the Line-Of-Sight blocking Bastion mititgates its lack of the Interceptor rule! Other artillery options are spicy, and I believe Eldar also have an indirect, Large Blast version of the Shadow Weaver mounted on a Falcon chassis. Can anyone back me up on this?

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Glamhadril
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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Mon Oct 29 2012, 17:02

@captainbalroga
yes its called night spinner has a large blast S6 rending ap nil but forces target squad to roll difficult and dangerous next turn if they move

@redsand
what he said

roferl
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redsand
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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Wed Oct 31 2012, 02:43

Thanks for all the information and the welcome
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Wed Oct 31 2012, 03:43

Quote :
An allied Exarch. Once you start adding Tank Hunter, Crack Shot, or Fast Shot to your gun, the investment in points for a better gunner pays off. Fire Dragons give you the first two and Dark Reapers give you the last two. BS 5

Aye, its ridiculosly good AA. Interceptor + Tank Hunter + Twin Linked BS5 + Ignore cover + Reroll To Wound for FMC - thats almost guaranteed kill. All that for 112 points squad. Sitting in a really good cover.

I think that should be nerfed by FAQ. Like you cant use special rules when firing from fortification.
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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Wed Oct 31 2012, 11:52

@Azdrubael wrote:
Quote :
An allied Exarch. Once you start adding Tank Hunter, Crack Shot, or Fast Shot to your gun, the investment in points for a better gunner pays off. Fire Dragons give you the first two and Dark Reapers give you the last two. BS 5

Aye, its ridiculosly good AA. Interceptor + Tank Hunter + Twin Linked BS5 + Ignore cover + Reroll To Wound for FMC - thats almost guaranteed kill. All that for 112 points squad. Sitting in a really good cover.

I think that should be nerfed by FAQ. Like you cant use special rules when firing from fortification.

What does FMC mean?
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Hekatrix


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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Wed Oct 31 2012, 13:21

@mug7703 wrote:
quote]

What does FMC mean?

Flying Monstrous Creature


Its is a wicked good combo, but if your opponent brings one flyer, and you drop it the turn it arrives, you then have the FD's stuck way down the back....

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Wed Oct 31 2012, 21:04

@1++ wrote:
@mug7703 wrote:
quote]

What does FMC mean?

Flying Monstrous Creature


Its is a wicked good combo, but if your opponent brings one flyer, and you drop it the turn it arrives, you then have the FD's stuck way down the back....

Ah thanks. Also, errr...what are FDs? Sorry my acronyms are really limited for some reason. Maybe I've never read a discussion around this topic before lol :/
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Starstrider
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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Wed Oct 31 2012, 21:28

FD = Fire Dragons, the Eldar's uber tank hunting unit.

Personally, I would go for the Fire Dragons over the Dark Reapers if you purely want them to operate the quad-gun as a minimum squad is a bit cheaper and the Exarch powers come for 2 thirds the price. The Dark Reaper Exarch also has to choose whether to use Fast Shot or Crack Shot per turn whereas the Fire Dragon Exarch can use Crack Shot and Tank Hunters at the same time. Although, that said, once your quad-gun has done its job, Dark Reapers would be able to continue to function well, sitting behind the Aegis and firing at any Marines that stray into the open with their awesome guns. This also wouldn't be a bad place to stick a Farseer. On the other hand, unless your opponent has never seen or heard of Fire Dragons before (unlikely) and sends vehicles towards them, you're going to need a Wave Serpent or Falcon nearby to get much further use out of them besides a bit of zone denial.

I thought I'd also point out that the Night Spinner's monofilament rule where the enemy has to take difficult and dangerous terrain tests comes into effect the next time that enemy unit moves, not just the next turn. Note that this includes when they react to you charging them.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Wed Oct 31 2012, 21:47

A Fire Dragon or Dark Reaper Exarch on a Quadgun or Icarus Lascannon is a deadly unit but it has one major drawback. Most gun emplacements don't survive long enough to actually fire at any flyers! Any opponent who has flyers is likely to make the emplacement a target priority in order to protect his flyers. Last night I played a game against CSM and they had a bastion with lascannon. First thing I did was to target the lascannon with a Venom, destroying it and preventing anything shooting at my flyer when it arrived.

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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Wed Oct 31 2012, 22:01

It's true, the Quad-Gun is as durable as 2 Space Marines against Dark Eldar. However, anyone who doesn't have poison needs to use bigger guns, guns that won't be firing at vehicles that do not have a 3+ saving throw. CASE IN POINT: I can claim the dubious achievement of once having shot 4 Venoms at a Quad-Gun to inflict 0 wounds, leading to my Razorwing flying on and immediately being Stunned. "As durable as 2 Space Marines", indeed.

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Glamhadril
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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Wed Oct 31 2012, 23:53

if you have you have eldar allies you'll have a farseer aswell so you fortune the quad gun first turn and then go of to do other stuff this greatly enhances how survivable the gun is.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Wed Oct 31 2012, 23:55

@Glamhadril wrote:
if you have you have eldar allies you'll have a farseer aswell so you fortune the quad gun first turn and then go of to do other stuff this greatly enhances how survivable the gun is.

You can't Fortune the gun as it's not an Eldar unit.

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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Thu Nov 01 2012, 07:07

And why waste the Fortune there. Anyway if u go first that's 2 turns the opponent has to shoot at it before any reserve rolls are made. Anyway, doesn't the quad fun the 4+ cover from being behind the ADL?

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Different anti air   Fri Nov 02 2012, 02:43

You can just block line of sight with vehicles and then the QG will survive.
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