Zhul's Chaos Lists!

From the BR11: The Black Buzzards VS CSM New Codex thread, Zhul asked:

"If you were to put together an army list of Chaos marines, Mushkilla, what would it possibly look like? In general, of course! I don't want to put you on the spot and have you feeling like you've got to write up a super detailed list and all, my friend...I'm just curious as to what you would do, seeing as I have insane amounts of respect for your tactical acumen and overall gaming style.

Thanks again, Mushkilla!

Zhul"

Reply:

Some of the things I don’t get are…

Why are you running Chaos? I mean they are not Dark Eldar!

All in all, it needs some serious re-thinking.

Starting with not using Chaos due to their lack of pain tokens and overall power level.

Seriously, I just do not get why people are not ‘getting’ 6th. How Dark Eldar open up options. How without them, you are usually just missing out on what 6th is all about.

______________________________________

Now that that's over, don't mistake me doing something different and odd for tactical acumen, as you will see in my later games things don't go so well. Anyway thanks for the kind words and onto what I would do if I wanted to run a chaos list. I'll build a 1500 point list because that's what I know and hopefully it will be a good core to build on. Do be aware it won't be a conventional list.

The Flaming Descent

HQ
Sorcerer, Mastery level 3 (Pyromancy or Biomancy), Jump Pack, Force Axe, sigil of corruption - 150

TROOPS
15 Chaos Marines, bolters, bolt pistols, 2 plasma guns - 235
15 Chaos Marines, bolters, bolt pistols, 2 plasma guns - 235
10 cultists - 50

FAST ATTACK
10 Raptors, 2 melta guns - 190
Helldrake, Baelflamer - 170
Helldrake, Baelflamer - 170

HEAVY SUPPORT
5 Havocs, 4 autocannons - 115
5 Havocs, 4 autocannons - 115

FORTIFICATION
Aegis defence line, relay - 70

Total: 1500 points

Lots of bodies, lots of S7 Dakka, a counter assault unit, psychic goodness, helldrakes and reliable reserve control. If AV14 is going to be a problem swap the plasma guns for more melta. It still needs a lot of work, but it's a start.

I absolutely love it, Mushkilla! Thank you! I'm a fan of non-standard lists myself, and I'm stoked to see something a little different from the typical lists you tend to see floating around the forums these days...very nice, indeed my friend...

The Sorcerer, in particular, is awesome...and yes, I even think I'd go for Pyromancy if I used him, as I think it could be quite useful for his role within the army list. Love it.

I'm also a big fan of the Chaos marine units on foot...if I could find the points, I'd even maybe go so far as to Mark one or both of them in some way...maybe one with the Mark of Khorne and one with the Mark of Slaanesh (and, of course, the corresponding Icons even...), with some fun added through Champions with the Gift of Mutation, etc. Awesome stuff.

It's an awesome start to a Chaos list, Mushkilla....awesome potential for sure! One could even switch out one of the Havoc squads for a Maulerfiend (almost, anyway...) or something along those lines, and the possibilities are endless for upping it to the 2000 point level.

As a matter of fact, there's a 2000 point tournament coming up at my local GW store, and maybe I'll take a crack at putting together a CSM army for it, as heretical as that is. Mushkilla...thoughts on what to add/change for taking it to that points level?

Thanks again, Mushkilla...loving the list! And just to be clear, no one is turning their back on the Dark Eldar...nuh uh;) Simply a mild diversion, my friend...

Zhul

Also, other people's thoughts and ideas are more than welcome here! I'm very, very new to the Chaos Space Marines, and as such, could use all the help I can get. It's a great new codex, in my opinion, and offers a lot of different options for a burgeoning Chaos lord...

I think Mushkilla has given a great starting point for a really cool army, but he's quite right in that it's simply a beginning, and needs some work and tweaking done to it. Let's see where we can go with this...

Zhul

check this army list out Here. Its actually an interesting take on CSM w/ DE allies. I havent seen it played yet (me and the OP are in the same meta) but on paper it looks really decent, and is something completely different.

Yeah the list shadow mentioned is awesome. Really interesting and well worth considering.

On another note in the list I posted you could always swap out the raptors for bikes (and put the sorcerer on a bike). Which are probably a better option, but I like the new raptor models and deep strike seems to tie in nicely with pyromancy.

Whoa, thanks for the cool list, Shadows Revenge...that's very interesting. I'm not so much into the mono-Chaos God style lists, but I'm not totally opposed to them either. It's very cool none the less, and I can see it being an absolute beast on the tabletop. Thanks for sharing!

Agreed, Mushkilla, Chaos Bikes are looking to be some of the big winners in the latest CSM codex, from what I can glean, but the new Raptors models are some of my favorites too, and I can't see putting together an army list without them at this point. I think the Raptors also came out looking pretty darn good rules-wise, imho, this time around as well, so I'm absolutely stoked to get a big unit of them on the go. That said, I definitely plan on building and converting up a unit of Bikers in the near future, if I can manage to pull myself away from my beloved and rightfully first priority Dark Eldar for long enough to actually make this proposed CSM army...I'm thinking a Slaaneshi Chaos Biker unit, like...cruel, decadent hunters, thrill of the messy kill-type madmen. Very cool. The new Slaanesh Hellstrider kit for Fantasy, combined with the CSM Bike models could make or an absolutely wicked looking unit, I thinking...yesss....

Anyway, I've gone through a few drafts of army lists for the Chaos Space Marines, and I've found I've been having serious issues in being able to fit everything I want in at that points level...nothing new, of course, but it is mildly frustrating. However, I have managed to come up with a roughly 2000 point CSM list that I'm starting to like, and I'd love to know what you lot think of it. Here we go...

HQ

Chaos Lord-
Mark of Khorne
Axe of Blind Fury
Veterans of the Long War
Sigil of Corruption
Juggernaut of Khorne

Sorcerer-
Mastery Level 3 (Pyromancy..maybe Biomancy, but probably Pyromancy...)
Force Axe
Aura of Dark Glory
Jump Pack
Veterans of the Long War

TROOPS

x15 Chaos Space Marines-
Bolters
Bolt Pistols
Close Combat Weapons
x2 Meltaguns
Mark of Khorne
Icon of Wrath
Veterans of the Long War
Champion w/
Power Axe
Combi-Melta
Gift of Mutation

x10 Chaos Space Marines-
Bolters
Bolt Pistols
x2 Plasma Guns
Champion w/
Power Fist
Dedicated Transport:
Rhino

x8 Chaos Space Marines-
Bolters
Bolt Pistols
Close Combat Weapons
x1 Flamer
Champion w/
x2 Lightning Claws
Dedicated Transport:
Rhino

FAST ATTACK

x10 Raptors-
x2 Meltaguns
Mark of Nurgle
Veterans of the Long War
Champion w/
Power Maul
Gift of Mutation

Heldrake-
Baleflamer

HEAVY SUPPORT

Forgefiend-
x3 Ectoplasma Cannons

Maulerfiend-
Lasher Tendrils

x5 Havocs-
x4 Autocannons

This army list comes in at a little under 2000 points, which leaves a few available for the odd upgrade here and there. Despite the fact that it's not really entirely the typical CSM army list you see kicking around, I still think I can certainly make it work, and that it'll be a lot of fun to play. It's got some really great elements within it, and some absolutely wicked close combat potential. All in all, I'm growing attached to it. I'd love to see your thoughts on it though, and I'm interested to see what you think...

Despite the fact that I really couldn't fit everything I really wanted, both in terms of units and upgrades, I'm happy-ish. Still have a way to go on it yet, of course, but it's a start. Let me know what you think!

Again, thanks so much, Mushkilla and Shadows Revenge, you've both been insanely helpful...

Rob

EDIT: I've done some more work and tweaking on this, and the latest post (below this one) shows a much better and up-to-date representation of where I'm actually at.

So I've been working like a madman, trying to get this army list to a point where I'm really loving it, and it's becoming obvious to me that I'm, at best, half way there. I've got a solid 1100 points sorted out, that I'm super happy with and want to include in the army list for sure... but this also means that there's almost 880 points left to spend, that I absolutely just cannot sort out on my own at the moment.

I think what I'll do is post the portion of the army that I've got sorted and couldn't be happier with, to give you an idea of where I'm at. Hopefully, seeing this, you'll be able to see what I'm missing, and have suggestions on how to spend the remaining nearly 900 points needed for this army...

So, here's what I've got and am cool with...

HQ

Chaos Lord-
Mark of Khorne
Axe of Blind Fury
Sigil of Corruption
Juggernaut of Khorne
Veterans of the Long War
Gift of Mutation
@185pts.

Sorcerer-
+2 Additional Mastery Levels (Mastery Level 3, Pyromancy)
Force Axe
Veterans of the Long War
Jump Pack
Aura of Dark Glory
@145pts.

TROOPS

x15 Chaos Space Marines-
Bolters
Bolt Pistols
Close Combat Weapons
x2 Meltaguns
Mark of Khorne
Icon of Wrath
Veterans of the Long War
Aspiring Champion w/
Power Axe
Combi-Melta
Gift of Mutation
@353pts.

FAST ATTACK

x10 Raptors-
x2 Meltaguns
Mark of Nurgle
Veterans of the Long War
Raptor Champion w/
Power Maul
Gift of Mutation
@275pts.

Heldrake-
Baleflamer
@170pts.

CURRENT TOTAL@ 1128pts.

So, there's what I've got now, and would like to keep. I think it forms the base of, what will hopefully be a decent, fun, and cool-looking army. I'm sitting at 1128 points, and now have 872 points remaining with which to finish off this force.

Well, this is where I need the help, in spending the last 872 points available to me and finishing this army off right. Any and all help would be so appreciated, and I really look forward to seeing your suggestions and thoughts on this. Also, when thinking about this, keep in mind that I'm not entirely opposed to Allies either...in fact, I've really been wanting a Dark Apostle (with the Burning Brand of Skalathrax, VotLW, and whatever else would be good for him...) in this force too, so if I could add him to it in an Allied contingent, that'd be rad. Thanks for reading, everyone!

Zhul