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| | 1500 Mono Dark Eldar | |
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Dark_Kindred Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 207 Join date : 2012-12-30
| Subject: 1500 Mono Dark Eldar Mon Dec 31 2012, 02:00 | |
| Fellow Archons:
I have agreed to a 1500 point match against a Necron player. Having not played against this player nor Necons, I am unsure how to proceed. From what I have seen, he plays a "Silver Tide" setup, i.e, lots of Necron Warriors and Immortals supported by Scarabs. Granted, I watched him stomp a new Blood Angels player but it looked like most of his collection was there.
This is the list I devised for Friday. Please note that I own all of these models and not much more (5 Incubi, an Archon, 4 Wracks, 13 Wyches, 5 Eldar Rangers, and an Eldar Farseer). Also note that this list is not far off from what I usually run--I abhor list tailoring.
The List
Head Quarters Succubus with Agonizer 85 Haemonculus with Liquifiergun 60
Elites x3 Kabalite Trueborn with 3 Blasters in Venom with Splinter Cannons 146
Troops x7 Wyches with Haywire Grenades led by Hekatrix with Agonizer & Phantasmal Grenade Launcher in Raider with Night Shields 194 x10 Kabalite Warriors in Raider with Splinter Racks & Night Shields 170 x10 Kabalite Warriors in Raider with Splinter Racks & Night Shields 170
Fast Attack x6 Reaver Jetbikes with 2 Heat Lances 156 x5 Scourges with 2 Heat Lances 134
Heavy Support Ravager with Night Shields 115 Ravager with Night Shields 115 Razorwing Jetfighter with Flicker Fields and Disintegrater Cannons 155
The Plan of Attack As you can all see, the main problem with this army is that it lacks strong long ranged anti-infantry fire, which is a big minus for me. Hopefully, the Night Shields will minimize Rapid Fire and Gauss/Heavy Gauss Cannon shooting. The Reaver Jetbikes will harass isolated units and tempt the Necrons into breaking formation. Scourges will help by screening and acting to counter a Monolith Deep Strike (if he does that/has one).
The Wyches will act as a counter assault element. The Haemonculus will split off from the group, leaving his pain token and then assault a Warrior blob. If he survives the undoubtedly brutal Overwatch, he will then challenge an attached word if he has a 2+ or 3++. This will allow the Succubus and Hekatrix can continue their assault unmolested, likely winning the combat and forcing a sweeping advance.
The first two turns will be dedicated to long range shooting with Dark Lances/Splinter Cannons. I will casually drift my forces to one side and then deny his flank by moving the entire raiding force Flat-Out. The Necrons will be forced to pivot and will be unable to effectively engage.
Ultimately, I do not think that I have the resources to break the Necrons at range. The Raider gunboats (combined) should deal 5.927 unsaved wounds against a squad of Warriors after We'll Be Back is factored in (assuming no resurrection orb). When it comes to breaking his back, I think that the game will come down to a single assault.
Target Priority
1. Doomsday Arks--These bad boys can ruin my army. Got to go. 1.*** Monolith--Absolutely terrifying at short range, capable of Deep Strike, and Warrior Teleportation. I marked the Monolith * because it is a #1 priority if and only if it successfully Deep Strikes. Otherwise, I would regulate it to 5. 2. Destroyers 3. Catacomb Command Barge 4. Scarabs 5. Ghost Arks
Shooting Allocation Strategy--In my mind, the single Dark Lance shot provided by a Raider would best be used against Scarabs/Destroyers---dealing .555 Instant Death wounds against these bad boys seems more productive than trying to crack an AV 12 vehicle Skimmer. Depending on how the Ravagers perform, it may be prudent to shift the Raiders' fire and instead rely on Blasters, Heat Lances, and other medium range firepower to force Instant Death/massed wounds on the Scarabs. Combined, he Trueborn, Scourge, and Reaver Jetbike Squads should be able to 3.88 Instant Death wounds and 8.35 regular wounds. The Kabalite Warriors should deal another 8.9 wounds on average. _________________ What do you despise? By this are you truly known.
Last edited by Dark_Kindred on Mon Dec 31 2012, 04:46; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forgot Word) | |
| | | Caranthir987 Hellion
Posts : 84 Join date : 2012-07-15 Location : Striking Shadow Incubus Temple
| Subject: Re: 1500 Mono Dark Eldar Mon Dec 31 2012, 15:05 | |
| I think your going into the mathamma mode a bit much here, you always have to watch with that as you may be correct in your calculations but extra rules/special abilities mess with it. For instance, scarabs - if I recall correctly - have stealth. Therefore, they are going to be getting a good cover save, and soaking up a lot of those DL + HL shots. And you wont be instadeathing destroyers (though they don't have multiple wounds I suppose) as they are toughness 5, but they also have reanimation protocols and will get up again 1/3 of the time, or 1/2 the time with a resorb.
IMO your target priority list is wrong, as Scarabs should be near the top as they can rock any mechanised's forces world if not dealt with quickly. Doomsday arks - yeah well they will wreck a DE vehicle if it hits one, but then again so does most stuff, but for a near 200pts tank they are not that scary. Monoliths are more of a threat if ignored due to gauss flux arc, but with a concentration of DL's on it, it should be dealt with quickly.
For me, if he doesn't use annihilation barges - which can be a DE players worst nightmare after only GK dakka dreads - then you should be on a fairly even footing if not an advantadge. You also don't mention wraiths which can be another pain in the whole unit. In my experience Necrons without wraiths really, really don't like dark eldar combat units such as wyches, Incubi etc as you run in, do a fair amount of casaulties and run them down with no reanimation _________________ Death? You want death? I'm afraid that would be far too boring...
http://annihilatedsouls.blogspot.co.uk/
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| | | huymix Hellion
Posts : 56 Join date : 2012-12-27
| Subject: Re: 1500 Mono Dark Eldar Mon Dec 31 2012, 18:08 | |
| It is a bit tough to comment only because the Necron list is a big question mark. Scarabs would wreak havoc on tanks but for the fact that your tanks are so quick they might not priority #1.
Seems unlikely that he will effectively field both a Doomsday Ark and a Monolith at 1500 points. Of the 2, I would probably fear the Doomsday Ark more.
I actually just came off of playing Necrons and if those are his available units he might field a CCB, 1 Ghost Ark with Warriors and a Cryptek with Eldritch Lance, footslogging Immortals maybe with a cryptek or Lord to allow for veil, a doomsday ark and 10 scarabs. Destroyers are not as good as they used to be.
Based on what you have I wouldn't really add any of the units. However, I don't like Scourges and especially with heat lances and 4+ save with medium range guns.
The thing about Necrons is that they have a lot of tricks. So even though you think you might be able to run away, a couple of crypteks could ruin that strategy. Regular Necrons probably don't want to fight so using Wyches as counter assault may not work out. Anyways, you can get into a lot of ifs and or. My take would be that your list would prioritize:
1) Ghost Ark (crack them open and remove ability to bring back more guys) 2) Scarabs 3) Immortals 4) Doomsday Ark
As for strategy, I would say the Doomsday Ark will be on its own. Depending on deployment, I would turbo the Reavers max distance to get as close (if not even behind the Doomsday Ark).
Concentrate on the Ghost Ark with your lances and Razorwing/Splintercannons on the immortals. Also, keep your stuff spread out especially if your worried about the Doomsday Ark and Scarabs. Last thing you want is to be hit by either but its even worse if they hit multiple (aka. mitigate the extent of damage by spreading out.
I think that Necrons are top tier and so it will be more difficult of a match up than maybe you present but it is doable.
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| | | LTKage Hellion
Posts : 97 Join date : 2012-05-21
| Subject: Re: 1500 Mono Dark Eldar Mon Dec 31 2012, 21:29 | |
| Looks alright. You might want to consider shifting things around--getting rid of the PGL in favor of Night Shields for your Trueborn and switching out the LFG for a Shatter Shard--less random (always ignoring saves) and a good way to get around their Reanimation Protocols (they are removed from play). | |
| | | Dark_Kindred Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 207 Join date : 2012-12-30
| Subject: Re: 1500 Mono Dark Eldar Mon Dec 31 2012, 21:36 | |
| Thank you all for your kind assistance. Here are a few of my thoughts. - Caranthir987 wrote:
- For instance, scarabs - if I recall correctly - have stealth. Therefore, they are going to be getting a good cover save, and soaking up a lot of those DL + HL shots.
From what I understand, Scarabs used to have stealth but that was taken away with their new codex. You were right to call me out on IDing Destroyers. Still, he can have five in one squad maximum so it should be easy to pull them apart. - Caranthir987 wrote:
IMO your target priority list is wrong, as Scarabs should be near the top as they can rock any mechanised's forces world if not dealt with quickly. Doomsday arks - yeah well they will wreck a DE vehicle if it hits one, but then again so does most stuff, but for a near 200pts tank they are not that scary. Monoliths are more of a threat if ignored due to gauss flux arc, but with a concentration of DL's on it, it should be dealt with quickly. - huymix wrote:
- Scarabs would wreak havoc on tanks but for the fact that your tanks are so quick they might not priority #1.
Frankly, I do not think that it would be useful to commit both my medium and long range assets to nuking Scarabs. It is true that they can move from one deployment zone to the next in two turns but the elimination of long range guns, such as Gauss Cannons and Doomsday Cannons, should be a priority because they mitigate the speed/mobility of the Dark Eldar. There is just a plethora of medium range options that would be better suited to fending off Scarabs---I count 9 STR 6+ Medium range weapons that ID Scarabs and up to 69 Splinter Weapon shots. I also plan on making the center of the board a killing field by placing as little terrain as possible in No-Man's-Land. - Caranthir987 wrote:
You also don't mention wraiths which can be another pain in the whole unit. In my experience Necrons without wraiths really, really don't like dark eldar combat units such as wyches, Incubi etc as you run in, do a fair amount of casaulties and run them down with no reanimation I thanked God when I didn't see Wraiths. They still are a possibility, I suppose. - huymix wrote:
Seems unlikely that he will effectively field both a Doomsday Ark and a Monolith at 1500 points. Of the 2, I would probably fear the Doomsday Ark more. I don't think he will field both but I know he will field one. I can't really do anything about the Monolith if it Deep Strikes beyond placing terrain/models to mess with it. - huymix wrote:
Based on what you have I wouldn't really add any of the units. However, I don't like Scourges and especially with heat lances and 4+ save with medium range guns. Sometimes you just have to be stylish and besides, they make excellent screening units and don't look like they would be half bad against Scarabs or a Deep Striking Monolith. I do agree with you from a gameplay standpoint--I have tried so hard to love Scourges but they are rather unreliable. IMO they would be a great buy if they were like three points cheaper or had less stringent special weapons requirements. - huymix wrote:
1) Ghost Ark (crack them open and remove ability to bring back more guys) 2) Scarabs 3) Immortals 4) Doomsday Ark
I politely disagree. In my mind, anything that allows him to reach out and touch me needs to die. Warrior/Immortal hordes are very scary and I will do everything I can to avoid them but the act of avoidance doesn't appear that difficult. If he is using Ghost Arks to ferry Warriors near me, then I will make sure they go down. - huymix wrote:
As for strategy, I would say the Doomsday Ark will be on its own. Depending on deployment, I would turbo the Reavers max distance to get as close (if not even behind the Doomsday Ark). This. I might even try to encircle it but not before I try to knock it out with Dark Lances. - huymix wrote:
Concentrate on the Ghost Ark with your lances and Razorwing/Splintercannons on the immortals. Also, keep your stuff spread out especially if your worried about the Doomsday Ark and Scarabs. Last thing you want is to be hit by either but its even worse if they hit multiple (aka. mitigate the extent of damage by spreading out.
This also. - huymix wrote:
I think that Necrons are top tier and so it will be more difficult of a match up than maybe you present but it is doable.
We shall see how the much vaunted Necrontyr stack up against the Dark Kin. Edit: I hadn't thought about using Shatter Shards.... Thank you again. Regardless of the outcome, I am sure that the souls of the Necrontyr will be bitter and I will never wish to partake ever again. Happy New Year! _________________ What do you despise? By this are you truly known.
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| | | Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow Hellion
Posts : 88 Join date : 2013-01-05 Location : Palace of Archon Hedonus Vex
| Subject: Re: 1500 Mono Dark Eldar Sat Jan 12 2013, 08:55 | |
| Being very experienced against Necrons (my faveorit army to play against) I would suggest just as much fire as possible, and as much assault as possible to put it simply. Our CC capabilities are god-like (Hail Khaine! xD ) and though our shooting is about even to Necrons, you can still outchoot him if you do it carefully. I would suggest taking dropping the Haemonculus, what is he doing for your army? Also, drop a Ravager. Take another squad of wyches in a Raider, and get in his face. By that I mean get your wyches into CC with his Warriors ASAP. Go after his Overlord and Lords, most of the time they will have ressurection orbs, letting they warriors and immortals come back to life on something like a 4 or 3+ let me just say, you're going to absolutely hate that. The best way, honestly, to defend against that, is lots of attacks and shots. If you wipe the squad, he can't use his reanimation unless he takes the upgrade so that his overlord and/or lords can come back by themselves. Do your best to just wipe one squad at a time. Focus on the Scarabs, I'd say that should be in your top 3 priorities. I've had all 3 of my vehicles taken out first turn by scarabs. They don't look very scary, but they will make you HATE YOUR LIFE if they get close enough to your vehicles. Remeber, with the scarabs, seeing as they are swarms, they take double wounds from bblast weapons, so take missiles with that Razorwing. Also, take Haywire blasters with the scourges, it'll do better against his vehicles. Though we have lance weapons, it's still a glance on a 4, haywire glances on a 2-5. What sounds better? I'm pretty sure nothing except the monolith on his side has more that 3 HP either, so with those wyches, assault his vehicles and give them haywire grenades. It works a lot better than 4 blasters, and chances are you'll glance him to death so nothing blows up in your face. Also, take splinter cannons in those Kabalite squads. But first I would take more wyches, you're good on AT. _________________ -Come, join me in my realm of shadows, I have a new game I want to show you.- Archon Hedonus Vex, Kabal of the Red Shadow
Tournament Record: 5-1-3 1st place: 0 2nd place:2 3rd place:0 No place:1
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| | | Massaen Klaivex
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2011-07-05 Location : Western Australia
| Subject: Re: 1500 Mono Dark Eldar Sat Jan 12 2013, 12:12 | |
| Ghost arks have 4hp as well!
Personally, you need venoms. It's really that simple. 3-5 would be my aim. I would ditch the scourges area second 5 kabalite unit in a venom with a blaster as a start. Loosing the Succubus entirely, the hekatrix weapons and PGL along with the left over points from the scourges should get a second unit of them. Ditch the Haemies weapons if need be!
Lastly, put the lances back on the Razorwing, you will want them more often than not thanks to the added AT and with the 2 blasters , 4 splinter cannons and 8 splinter rifles I think they make up for the loss of the distinegrators! _________________ Objective Secured - Western Australia's Premier 40k Event Organisers and Website OBJECTIVE SECURED
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| | | Dark_Kindred Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 207 Join date : 2012-12-30
| Subject: Re: 1500 Mono Dark Eldar Mon Jan 14 2013, 03:35 | |
| Thank you again for your comments. If you are curious, you can find the battle report in the Realspace Raids section of the forum. The CliffNotes version is this: it was a crushing route. The Necrons were completely annihilated. - Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:
- Focus on the Scarabs, I'd say that should be in your top 3 priorities. I've had all 3 of my vehicles taken out first turn by scarabs.
Indeed they are scary. I found that laying into them with 40 re-rollable Splinter Rifles and a few Blasters/Heat Lances makes them more manageable. - Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:
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Remeber, with the scarabs, seeing as they are swarms, they take double wounds from bblast weapons, so take missiles with that Razorwing. They have missiles. I hope to God that you haven't been paying for them. If so, then you're probably better than your opponents. - Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:
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Also, take Haywire blasters with the scourges, it'll do better against his vehicles. Though we have lance weapons, it's still a glance on a 4, haywire glances on a 2-5. What sounds better? A Heat Lance that can cause Instant Death to Scarabs and force a penetrating hit 21/36 if in melta range. I like the Haywire Blaster in theory but I have come to love my Heat Lances. Rarely do I get the chance to fire them but they really catch your opponent's attention. - Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:
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It works a lot better than 4 blasters, and chances are you'll glance him to death so nothing blows up in your face. Also, take splinter cannons in those Kabalite squads. Not taking Splinter Cannons is more cost efficient and makes it marginally easier for the Raider to earn its points back. Ten points for 4 non re-rollable shots? No thanks. - Massaen wrote:
- Ghost arks have 4hp as well!
Personally, you need venoms. It's really that simple. 3-5 would be my aim. I would ditch the scourges area second 5 kabalite unit in a venom with a blaster as a start. I did not find that necessary. They are a very short range army and amazingly slow without their transports. I found that long range anti-tank, coupled with Night Shields makes life very hard for the cylons, errr, toasters....Necrons... - Massaen wrote:
Loosing the Succubus entirely, the hekatrix weapons and PGL along with the left over points from the scourges should get a second unit of them. Ditch the Haemies weapons if need be! No. Succubus with Wyches against Warriors/Lords are just great. Also, this setup (less the Haemonculus) has been constant since I started playing. She destroys people in horrible, unspeakable ways. Also, the Haemonculus has the best weapon to use against Necron Warriors: the Shattershard. The Warriors are simply removed from the game with no We'll Be Back rolls.herehttp://www.thedarkcity.net/t5135-first-game-against-necrons _________________ What do you despise? By this are you truly known.
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