mandrakes

does anyone use them the best way to use them seems to be to infiltrate them then run a haemy up to them so they can do something first turn

kingc1313 wrote:

does anyone use them

No

ok well don't get any more straight forward than that

Count Adhemar wrote:

kingc1313 wrote:

does anyone use them

No

LOL! That's hilarious!

The only thing I have ever used them for is to deny my opponent an ifiltration spot (so take the minimum mandrake squad).

That said, I've since stopped doing so as it is only useful when you 'know" that your opponent will have infiltrators that are a lynchpin to his strategy. I did it much more in 5th ed when my main gaming buddy playing tyranids liked to drop in genestealers infiltrating within charge range.

so all in all mandrakes are basicly out of date now with 6th but it seems to go across the board with all cc infiltators

I've got a "tryout" list that I'm wanting to use that has a squad in there ... but I'm still not sure how I'd want to use them honestly. They have no ranged attacks until you get a pain token but their special rules you can't use if you start them with a Haemy (infiltrate, etc...), then they aren't that good in CC to begin with and where I mostly play against SM I don't really see where they are going to have any success. I'm very close to just pulling them out of the list but want to see them being useless in game before completely (as opposed to nearly completely) writing them off.

The list also has wracks and grotesques, two units I haven't used before, as well as Urien as one of the HQ choices. I don't expect great things from the list but wanted to see them in play before returning to a more regular list...

I'm a massive advocate for wracks and grots they should serve you well.

Mandrakes are well, rubbish until they get a pain token. Starting them in a raider with a haeme may be fun though.

Actually I was recently thinking of scouts as a counter to ravenwing scout moves.. Mandrakes would do similar though. Standard if devastation ravenwing plus MMABs and black knights make for a very nasty alpha strike. If you face something like this mandrakes might be worth considering.

the sad thing is i rally like the models

kingc1313 wrote:

the sad thing is i rally like the models

I think most of us do and I really wish the rules gave us a chance to use them. Sadly, they are utter crap in 6e and you would be better served spending points on almost any other unit.

they were as bad in 5th when they came out as well...

All they seem to offer is infiltrate and a 5++ in an army built around fast skimming transports and 5+ (or 4+) cover saves....

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Maybe a WWP army could use three big blobs to provide a turn 2 charge or a distration to get the WWP in position, but then you would want your Elites to bring incubi or grots through the WWP.

There was an extensive discussion of Mandrakes not so long ago, definitely worth checking out:

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t3614-mandrakes

Point for point they're the worst infiltrators in the game.

That said, in fun games they're kinda alright. Either Infiltrating them up to threaten something early on, or claiming a piece of terrain then stepping up several turns later.

The reason for the delay usually is to give you an opportunity to kill off dudes with flamers or anti-infantry weaponry.

They would be at least half (maybe quarter) decent if they could assault first turn. But, no, by some miracolous reason they have to wait a turn of shooting. Thus disallowing the only maybe use of them - tie up something in close combat until target (or more likely mandrakes) is dead.

That would be at least something decent for 150 points. But no - 6th edition rules robed them of even this.

Don't forget that according to the DE FAQ Mandrakes now count as daemons, but only for purposes that would hurt them and not for any purposes that might benefit them. As if to discourage the last few people who were still hoping to find a decent use for them!

I am one of the few people that actually uses Mandrakes here I think.
Sure they are not an ideal unit choice and take abit of work to make viable at all but I have never had a game that I was dissapointed in them.

For my games I cough up 325-355 points to use them but that gives me 8-10 Mandrakes, Hammy with LQ or HR, 3 Troop Wracks in an extra Raider and an ADL which can be given a Quad-Gun for 50more if your expecting flyers.

I put my ADL with Mandrakes right on center deployment and first turn bring the Hammy with the Wracks up to drop him off for the Pain Token.

You now have a unit with 16-20 Baleblasts and LG or HR that has a 3+ CS (2+ if you go to ground) and FNP that ties up center map on ether a flank or mid field.
Not only can they soak some good fire but they put out some support fire or Melee if your near by and often deter the enemy from a spot on the board.
You also get another DL or Dissy, a scoring unit with FnP, another Vehicle to saturate AT choices and the option to take decent AA if needed.

As others will point out there are better units for all these things, but I feel Mandrakes do them all very well and have never let me down in doing it.

That does seem like a good way to use them,

I recently thought on a potential use for Mandrakes:

I usually roll for Strategic Traits with my Archon, but one of the rolls is quite annoying for me: the one which gives Acute Senses to a flanking squad, which is absolutely useless for my army nowadays.

Then I asked myself: why don't you get Mandrakes and use them only as a disruptive squad (and for disruptive I mean that they will only distract my enemy from actually important things)??? And then, when you get that Strategic trait roll, you can join them with your Archon (and probably an Haemonculus too, leaving from one of my wych units) and make a nasty surprise for your enemy.

Mandrakes make an undesirable option if we look at other units from our codex (and even from our Eldar allies codex). But if you look at them as a tactical variable, changing their role between each battle in order to acquire local or even global advantage over your opponent's army, they are not that bad.

Just my opinion but... Subdue your minds to it!!

I really like that idea of using them with the ADL - seems like it would work really well in a WWP list. With the haemie as the WWP bearer you're not really even repurposing a unit solely to get the mandrakes a PT. To top it off you have cover for your portal, and some distance firepower on T1 with the quad-gun (otherwise lacking in a Talos-heavy WWP list)

I also like the idea of the advanced ADL with mandrakes, its a nice use of their (few) abilities.

I've also considered running a bastion on the halfway line with some (3 - 5) mandrakes on top to use the gun. The main benefit of course is that you have a piece of LOS-blocking terrain that you can place anywhere up to the halfway line. Mandrake Air Traffic Control denying landing permission to opponent's jets is a bonus if it happens.

Unfortunately I don't have a bastion or ADL to try it out with yet (and only the old 3rd ed mandrake models, so the worst of both worlds ). When I do I will report!

I'll have to give Mandrake Air Traffic Control a shot when I get that Bastion put together.

Doesn't it run the risk of the other guy deploying infiltrators into it though?

sgb69 wrote:

I'll have to give Mandrake Air Traffic Control a shot when I get that Bastion put together.

Doesn't it run the risk of the other guy deploying infiltrators into it though?

No, enemy infiltrators aren't allowed to deploy in your fortifications, wherever that fortification happens to be. Also, if I remember correctly there is a special exemption that your own infiltrators can deploy into your own fortifications regardless of how close to it the enemy are, so no blocking either.

Of course, once the game is underway they can wander through the door like anyone else. If the mandrakes are on the roof I don't think they can stop some enemy scouts setting up camp inside. But since part of the fun is having some LOS blocking terrain in the middle of the board, you should have a Raider full of dudes next to that door pronto, no?

Creeping Darkness wrote:

No, enemy infiltrators aren't allowed to deploy in your fortifications, wherever that fortification happens to be. Also, if I remember correctly there is a special exemption that your own infiltrators can deploy into your own fortifications regardless of how close to it the enemy are, so no blocking either.

Do you have a reference for that? All I can find in the FAQ and the BDB is this, on p.121:

Quote :

an enemy fortification is only considered to be an enemy unit if it is occupied at the time of redeployment.

So that would mean that if the enemy deployed his infiltrators first, and you didn't have any units within 12" of your fortification, he could deploy inside it as his unit would be out of sight.

Your opponent can't deploy inside your fortifications.

BRB p. 121 wrote:

Units can never deploy inside an enemy fortification, nor can they use pre-game abilities (like Scout redeployment) to embark in enemy fortifications before the first turn begins. Once the game begins, units are free to move into or out of any fortifications, friendly or enemy, following the normal rules.

But being inside a fortification or building only counts as being out of sight, so infiltrators can't be deployed inside it if there are enemy troops within 12".

BRB p. 38 wrote:

Infiltrators can be set up anywhere on the table that is more than 12" away from any enemy unit, as long as no deployed enemy unit can draw line of sight to them. This includes in a building [...], as long as the building is more than 12" away from any enemy unit.