Discussion: Rise of the Tyrantslayer

This is a very well put together story. The raw desperation when she was a Parched colors her actions later on very well, something more than a few 40K writers forget to do.

That said, this really stuck out for me.

Bhariss wrote:

"You are welcome to aid both the Frozen Talon and the Seventh Woe." she pronounced. "You will, however, understand that you are below both of us in this partnership, as Maiahvel and myself are now equals."

This would not fly. Even a lone Haemonculus holds the power of life and death over the Kabalites, and to snub Gaunt's pride like that would be to all but guarantee that there will be 'complications' the next time Ahtalia needs to be resurrected.
Maybe emphasize that even the creepers serve the Tyrantslayer, that fear was mostly burned out of her as a Parched, or that she already has Covens aiding her, but right now that reads like an unacceptably stupid political blunder for an Archon to make.

A Haemonculus could certainly be a lesser partner in an endeavor, but remember that megalomania and delusions of godhood are common among them. No Dark Eldar save the strongest Archons(Malys, Vect, etc.) would be gauche enough to actually say it aloud.

P.S. Great description of the Haemonculus.

Seems you've raised some good points, something I should probably address. At the moment Zheriaq only has a few intelligent servants, using them to act as focus points for his own false synapse in order to control the tyranids he's managed to break away from the hive mind. Allied with tyranid hunters, that number is certain to grow, though I wouldn't be surprised if Ahtalia and Maiahvel recognised that they were the initial suppliers of such and can thus cap his power if things are looking a little grim for them.

That's not to say that you're wrong (in fact you're very much right), and it's something to look at later.

Thanks for reading though!

Nice fix by fluff, Bhariss. Very nice indeed. No retconning for you sir.

That's what I like about the Dark Eldar. The ability to turn a mistake into character development. I look forward to your next chapter.

In one fell swoop you've established that your Archon is humble enough to admit fault to a subordinate(meaning she either trusts him or doesn't consider him a threat), that the Haemonculus is so focused on his Tyranid experiments that he is more or less detached from the ego and politics of most Dark Eldar(not unprecedented for a Haemonculus), and hinted at something dark festering in the Kabal with the Grey Knight attack.
That's a whole lot of character development in a short amount of time. Now the only one who needs more of her story told is Maiahvel.

I salute your skill in taking criticism and weaving an even better story out of it.

I think I have you to thank for that Spanna. Probably would have gone unnoticed, but you got me to pretty much have a look over the whole thing and see what I could do with it to rectify a mistake. After all, it does look like things have been progressing like a bull at a gate for Ahtalia, haven't they? Rushing is something that can end in death for an archon.

To be honest though, I kinda wrote in GK because I played a game against them prior and wasn't exactly feeling too happy about it (a NF sword adds to inv save how?). But... maybe someone in the kabal is aligned with the wrong Talon?

I know that last one sounds fanboy-ish, but these were actual events from a game I had (in which we ran out of time to finish, for those of you wondering why any archon would back away from an easy foe). Figured I'd just incorporate it into the story 'cause I liked it.

Really liked a lot of this, especially the first couple with Bhariss. The 'Tyrantslayer' fight though, I think could do with some more expansion. Hive Tyrants have thick armour on their heads, and spout toxic gases form the vents on their backs, and lets not even go into their immense psychic power. Given that it's the very battle which gave her her title, I think it would be good to expand it and include many various elements, all working together to climax with the slaying of the beast. A Hive Tyrant is one of the most fearsome things in the 40k universe, and I think you would do well to impress that upon the situation, all the better to prove her power.

Just a thought, I think it would really add to the impact of what she has accomplished. In fact, in the 5th ed backstory, Hive Tyrants are sometimes reincarnated, with all of the battlefield knowledge which they had before. You could almost make that Hive Tyrant a sort of 'Old Adversary', to use the codex's rule name. I'm just spouting ideas here, ignore me if I'm talking madness.

Anggul wrote:

A Hive Tyrant is one of the most fearsome things in the 40k universe, and I think you would do well to impress that upon the situation, all the better to prove her power.

To anyone without splinter weaponry, sure. What's that? My T3 troop choices just rapid fired and killed your Hive Tyrant? Tyrants aren't that scary to our army. Very few things are, to be more to the point. A well-prepared archon can tackle any opponent.

Xelkireth wrote:

Anggul wrote:

A Hive Tyrant is one of the most fearsome things in the 40k universe, and I think you would do well to impress that upon the situation, all the better to prove her power.

To anyone without splinter weaponry, sure. What's that? My T3 troop choices just rapid fired and killed your Hive Tyrant? Tyrants aren't that scary to our army. Very few things are, to be more to the point. A well-prepared archon can tackle any opponent.

That's in-game, I'm talking backstory, which is what this is all about. The rules for poison weapons don't make much sense in 40k, they should have a strength value which doesn't work against vehicle armour. Also, certain things are far more resistant to toxins than others, Tyranids being a very good example of them.

Either way, her trueborn were dead, and she was using a sword. I'm not at all suggesting that she should have died on the spot, but I think that it would be much better for the story if it weren't so easy, and she had to be clever about it. Perhaps after a bit of fighting and various goings-on, a Haemonculus gets crushed nearby, a crucible of malediction tumbles away, and she snatches it up and opens it in the Tyrant's face, enabling her to finish it off. I'm thinking cinematically here

Anggul wrote:

Xelkireth wrote:

Anggul wrote:

A Hive Tyrant is one of the most fearsome things in the 40k universe, and I think you would do well to impress that upon the situation, all the better to prove her power.

To anyone without splinter weaponry, sure. What's that? My T3 troop choices just rapid fired and killed your Hive Tyrant? Tyrants aren't that scary to our army. Very few things are, to be more to the point. A well-prepared archon can tackle any opponent.

That's in-game, I'm talking backstory, which is what this is all about. The rules for poison weapons don't make much sense in 40k, they should have a strength value which doesn't work against vehicle armour. Also, certain things are far more resistant to toxins than others, Tyranids being a very good example of them.

Either way, her trueborn were dead, and she was using a sword. I'm not at all suggesting that she should have died on the spot, but I think that it would be much better for the story if it weren't so easy, and she had to be clever about it. Perhaps after a bit of fighting and various goings-on, a Haemonculus gets crushed nearby, a crucible of malediction tumbles away, and she snatches it up and opens it in the Tyrant's face, enabling her to finish it off. I'm thinking cinematically here

I can see what you mean, but you have to remember that I've based some of these off actual in-game events. Mind you, this was 4th ed and so she was a sybarite in a warrior squad instead of a dracon in a Trueborn squad, and she was using an agoniser. It was just that once the rest of the warriors were dead, and she was in combat alone with it, they finished each other off in the very next combat round. Very awesome to watch, although I'm not sure my opponent would have thought so.

Besides, what's not cinematic or clever (on her part) about it? She did go for the most vulnerable part of the hive tyrant, and even in her moment of triumph was killed in the attempt. A space marine with a chainsword would have probably charged it head on, screaming some nonsense about a corpse, and hacked away at its most armoured spot until "SPESH MUHREENS R KOOL" kicked in and killed it for him. What's exciting about that?

We all know that anything a space marine can do, the True Kin can do much more efficiently.

Bhariss wrote:

Anggul wrote:

Xelkireth wrote:

Anggul wrote:

A Hive Tyrant is one of the most fearsome things in the 40k universe, and I think you would do well to impress that upon the situation, all the better to prove her power.

To anyone without splinter weaponry, sure. What's that? My T3 troop choices just rapid fired and killed your Hive Tyrant? Tyrants aren't that scary to our army. Very few things are, to be more to the point. A well-prepared archon can tackle any opponent.

That's in-game, I'm talking backstory, which is what this is all about. The rules for poison weapons don't make much sense in 40k, they should have a strength value which doesn't work against vehicle armour. Also, certain things are far more resistant to toxins than others, Tyranids being a very good example of them.

Either way, her trueborn were dead, and she was using a sword. I'm not at all suggesting that she should have died on the spot, but I think that it would be much better for the story if it weren't so easy, and she had to be clever about it. Perhaps after a bit of fighting and various goings-on, a Haemonculus gets crushed nearby, a crucible of malediction tumbles away, and she snatches it up and opens it in the Tyrant's face, enabling her to finish it off. I'm thinking cinematically here

I can see what you mean, but you have to remember that I've based some of these off actual in-game events. Mind you, this was 4th ed and so she was a sybarite in a warrior squad instead of a dracon in a Trueborn squad, and she was using an agoniser. It was just that once the rest of the warriors were dead, and she was in combat alone with it, they finished each other off in the very next combat round. Very awesome to watch, although I'm not sure my opponent would have thought so.

Besides, what's not cinematic or clever (on her part) about it? She did go for the most vulnerable part of the hive tyrant, and even in her moment of triumph was killed in the attempt. A space marine with a chainsword would have probably charged it head on, screaming some nonsense about a corpse, and hacked away at its most armoured spot until "SPESH MUHREENS R KOOL" kicked in and killed it for him. What's exciting about that?

We all know that anything a space marine can do, the True Kin can do much more efficiently.

I think it's that you're presuming that a Hive Tyrant is slow and clumsy like a Carnifex. A Hive Tyrant is quick and incredibly skilled, and you also have it's psyhic power to contend with. That's why I suggested the Crucible, as it would prevent the thing from sending her entire body into incredible, crippling agony using only it's mind. It would be more than a simple case of running up it's arm, it would go for her and use it's various blades covering it's body and other weaponry (bonesword and lash whip included) to sweep her off of it's back, and once again the power of the hive mind it has at it's disposal.

It's an awesome idea and I love it, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not trying to rain on your very nicely narrated parade, I'm just suggesting making it more believable and clever beyond climbing it and stabbing it God-of-War-style with ease. ^^; (although I presume the sword was a power weapon.)

Pretty much just thinking it would be good to include other elements and draw it out more.
Other than that one fight I'm loving all of this.

Regardless of what was written, I think Anggul had a good point about the old adversary rule. It would be interesting for Ahtalia to fight the Tyrant again whilst she's in her prime. Perhaps Zheriaq's experiment requires the consumption of a world to be stalled. The Tyrant is reincarnated specifically to kill Ahtalia, who has been raiding digestion and spawning pools. Food for thought. Amusing that they are both technically immortal.

Khrivaan wrote:

Regardless of what was written, I think Anggul had a good point about the old adversary rule. It would be interesting for Ahtalia to fight the Tyrant again whilst she's in her prime. Perhaps Zheriaq's experiment requires the consumption of a world to be stalled. The Tyrant is reincarnated specifically to kill Ahtalia, who has been raiding digestion and spawning pools. Food for thought. Amusing that they are both technically immortal.

Yeah, returning again and again to do battle with each other. How many people can say their rival is a Tyranid Hive Tyrant?

Ooh, that Old Adversary idea's growing on me... after all, Ahtalia's killed another Hive Tyrant in combat since becoming Archon...

Perhaps it's more wary of her now, and won't view her as just weak prey anymore?

Bhariss wrote:

Ooh, that Old Adversary idea's growing on me... after all, Ahtalia's killed another Hive Tyrant in combat since becoming Archon...

Perhaps it's more wary of her now, and won't view her as just weak prey anymore?

It would be something different, I've never seen a story where it's happened before. I wouldn't describe it as wary so much as the hive mind acknowledging the Dark Eldar leaders as a threat to their leader-beasts, and this one recognising her. Perhaps have her bring different equipment and troops each time she knows Tyranids might be involved, in case she happens to comes face-to-face with the same one again, so that it can't use the knowledge of the previous battle to defeat her. Sort of like how the Tau and Tyranids constantly shift their technology to counter their opponents.

You said they were Tyranid specialists, which to me means they will have had the most notable, and perhaps most numerous encounters with Tyranids. Its quite possible for the first Tyrant to have studied Ahtalia through other conflicts between her and Tyranids. Though they've only fought once, it is well prepared. It would be fun to read the "pfft yet another Hive Tyrant... that knows my tricks... and seems familiar..."

Bhariss do you play Tyranids?

Khrivaan wrote:

Bhariss do you play Tyranids?

Given my preference of close combat over ranged, you'd think so. No, I've got DE, Orks, some Tau and was beginning Necrons when the incoming email for the DE arrived. Suffice to say the Necrons are not going to be worked on for a while...

That's not to say I wouldn't play 'nids. I use them for my coven units (raveners for grotesques, hormagaunts and acothyst for wracks), and I've used some in other conversions (have a 'fex with a warp lightning cannon growing out of its back in my Skaven army and a hell pit abomination that's mostly trygon), so it might just be a matter of time.

Should I separate the discussion from the story in a separate thread? Bhariss, you get the final say here.

That might be a good idea. The whole of the second page has become discussion, I can't imagine it being a terribly good thing for anyone trying to read the story from the beginning.

Be careful with the Haemonculus, we know that psykers are banned in Commoragh, and Tyranid synapse is a constant relay of multiple psychic messages. If anyone found out what he was doing, they'd have him dead as soon as possible to prevent daemonic incursion.

P.S. I love the gargoyle head. That was a stroke of genius... strange, twisted genius.

Anggul wrote:

Be careful with the Haemonculus, we know that psykers are banned in Commoragh, and Tyranid synapse is a constant relay of multiple psychic messages. If anyone found out what he was doing, they'd have him dead as soon as possible to prevent daemonic incursion.

P.S. I love the gargoyle head. That was a stroke of genius... strange, twisted genius.

Tyranid synapse is also linked to the Hive Mind rather than the warp (the 'nid codex says PotW has more to do with intense cerebral trauma rather than daemons), so it's possibly a grey area. If nothing else, I'm sure everyone's hoping that he's not giving the hive fleets a signal to follow into Commorragh. First sign would be a short, bearded creature running into Commorragh screaming "RUUUUUUUUN!" before exiting the other end.

Latest one's up. It has been a while, hasn't it? I blame a whole lot of Fantasy and work taking up my time, so I haven't had a game of 40k in a while so that Maiahvel and Zheriaq might accomplish some feats of their own. Needless to say...

Does anyone think that Ahtalia may have been too soft in this one? I don't want to give away too much more if you're reading this first, but you'll know what I mean after you have a look.