THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesLatest imagesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies

Go down 
4 posters
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Finn
Kabalite Warrior
Finn


Posts : 150
Join date : 2011-08-18
Location : Warsaw

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 15:50

At the end of the month we're starting a new league. I suspect very competitive lists from my opponents, as the players who are going to attend are competent and even the majority of polish national team is going to be there.

This is what I have in store for them:

ELDAR ALL STARS

Primary Detachment: Eldar

HQ 1: Autarch; 70 pts

Troops 1: 5 Dire Avengers; 65 pts
Troops 2: 5 Dire Avengers; 65 pts

Fast Attack 1: Crimson hunter [Exarch]; 180 pts

Heavy Support 1: Fire Prism; 125 pts
Heavy Support 2: Fire Prism; 125 pts
Heavy Support 3: Wraithknight; 240 pts

Dedicated Transport 1: Wave Serpent [S. Cannon, S. Laser, Holo Field]; 145 pts; Troops 1
Dedicated Transport 2: Wave Serpent [S. Cannon, S. Laser, Holo Field]; 145 pts; Troops 2

Eldar Total 1160 pts

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Allied Detachment: Dark Eldar

HQ 1: Haemonculus [Crucible of Malediction, Shattershard]; 85 pts

Troops 1: 5 Kabalite Warriors; 45 pts

Elites 1: 3 Trueborn [2x S. Cannon, 3x Plasma Grenades]; 59 pts

Heavy Support 1: Ravager [Flickerfield, Torment Grenade Launchers]; 120 pts

Dedicated Transport 1: Venom [S. Cannon]; 65 pts; Troops 1
Dedicated Transport 2: Venom [S. Cannon]; 65 pts; Elites 1

Dark Eldar Total 439 pts

TOTAL POINTS 1599 pts

---------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what I came up with after several sparring matches before the league. Overall, the list was not that much different in the beginning, but after I fought Jetseer council I found out that I'm helpless against them. I added Torment Grenade Launchers on my Ravager to reduce their Ld and the Haemy received some wargear which should make them weep. All for whooping 40 points Smile

Does anyone see any glaring weaknessess I'm not aware of? I know this list is short on troops, but this is not a huge problem, as they all are embarked and Serpents are hideously tough to crack.

AA defence is also a little problematic, but the Crimson Hunter Exarch has proved to work miracles on the battlefield, provided there is no quadgun on the turn he comes from reserves. Nothing solves this problem better than my two venoms on turn 1.
Back to top Go down
Grub
Wych
Grub


Posts : 823
Join date : 2011-09-04

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 16:22

Its interesting for sure. Like you said only issue I see is numbers. I would drop one of the heavy support options and replace it with another venom warrior squad

_________________
Delicious and Coven-Baked for your Pleasure

A very slow, 30K Salamander Distraction Log: VULKAN LIVES
Back to top Go down
Lord Valestrane
Slave
Lord Valestrane


Posts : 15
Join date : 2012-12-03

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 16:29

It seems quite a neat list, If it were me I'd alter the following;

Haemonculus = Drop both the crucible and shard. Crucible is very situational, Good, but for the points you could get the cheaper hex rifle, which is much more useful  (and likely to work in my experience) and the shard is one shot. If it fails that's it. A venom blade, is cheaper, deadlier and more reliable.

Ravager = Drop both FF and TGL, instead use Night shields (better in my opinion) because...

Skimping on a few things means with a bit of reworking you can inject some more points into more troops. Few extra kabalites in a Raider maybe? or just more for you to work with?
Back to top Go down
Lord Valestrane
Slave
Lord Valestrane


Posts : 15
Join date : 2012-12-03

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 16:34

Grub makes a better point.

Another Venom with some warriors would make objective scoring a lot more viable for yourself. If not at least they can tag team with the avengers to bring the pain.
Back to top Go down
Finn
Kabalite Warrior
Finn


Posts : 150
Join date : 2011-08-18
Location : Warsaw

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 16:39

Lord Valestrane, crucible of malediction, shattershard and torment launchers have to stay.

As I said mentioned in the original post, after several matches I found out that the only list I'm not capable of dealing with is Eldar Warlock Council on bikes. They cost about 600 points on average and usually have rerollable 2+ cover/rerollable 2+ armor and 4+ inv saves. It takes approximately 36 wounds to get rid of only one of them outside close combat, and the only things in the game which can reliably kill them in cc is a black mace daemon prince and the likes of defilers/soul grinders/dreadnoughts.

Those 40 points make them test Ld on 7, which means that 40% of them just DIE when I activate the crucible. Shattershard is a great way to deal with them, also, as they all have T4, which will evaporate1/3 of models under the template.

Outside of these items, in my list, there is absolutely no way to get rid of them. And if I don't, they'll eat me alive.

_________________
"Don't place faith in human beings, human beings are unreliable things"
Machines of Loving Grace - Butterfly Wings
Back to top Go down
Lord Valestrane
Slave
Lord Valestrane


Posts : 15
Join date : 2012-12-03

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 16:42

I sat flicking through my codex thinking to myself, "he must be fighting elder!" you indeed make a very good point in those circumstances, I stand well and truly corrected!
Back to top Go down
Finn
Kabalite Warrior
Finn


Posts : 150
Join date : 2011-08-18
Location : Warsaw

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 16:44

Expanding troop selection however is something that may be worth it. There are still a few test games ahead of me, so I'll check whether I need more.

_________________
"Don't place faith in human beings, human beings are unreliable things"
Machines of Loving Grace - Butterfly Wings
Back to top Go down
Lord Valestrane
Slave
Lord Valestrane


Posts : 15
Join date : 2012-12-03

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 16:52

Does he bring them on as reserves? A possible solution may be another venom + SC. In this case whenever they turn up id hit them with as much as you can. Firepower wise. Even robbing them of their charge if possible.

Venoms combined, might be good harassing units. ?
Back to top Go down
Finn
Kabalite Warrior
Finn


Posts : 150
Join date : 2011-08-18
Location : Warsaw

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 16:57

Nah... They start on the table and he uses them very, very aggresively. On T1 they hide behind a LOSblocker and then they just ply towards the enemy to smash his face in.

_________________
"Don't place faith in human beings, human beings are unreliable things"
Machines of Loving Grace - Butterfly Wings
Back to top Go down
Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla


Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 17:04

I would replace the dire avengers with squads of 10 guardians if you can find the points, it's 25pts more for double the fire power and wounds. 5 dire avengers won't do anything. But 10 guardians will make your opponent think twice before closing in on you as the serpent means they can strike anywhere within 24-30" (depending on whether you rotate the serpent and what you roll on battle focus). This also makes the unit a lot tougher, so when they do get out on turn 5 to hold an objective they won't be as easy to move (assuming going to ground in area terrain for 3+ cover). All the eldar players I know have switched out their minimum 5 dire avenger squads for 10 guardians, for this very reason.

Hope that helps. Smile

_________________
Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series


“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell
Back to top Go down
Finn
Kabalite Warrior
Finn


Posts : 150
Join date : 2011-08-18
Location : Warsaw

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 17:32

Mushkilla, very good advice and I've already thought of that, but I'm a little short on points Smile

_________________
"Don't place faith in human beings, human beings are unreliable things"
Machines of Loving Grace - Butterfly Wings
Back to top Go down
Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla


Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 17:48

Personally I would find the points. Also fire prisms are pretty terrible, a single S9 lance shot is very unreliable. I also don't see the point Torment Grenade Launcher on the ravager, that ravager is going down turn 1-2 a it's one of your main sources of AT and it's fragile. The only way you are going to get it within 6" to use the TGL is if you turbo, and then it's not shooting. I don't see why you would have problems with seer council just ignore it and kill everything else in his army. Not to mention if he doesn't get fortune of jink he's a dead man walking. I just don't see how a competent opponent is going to let your homunculus get within 6-9" to reliably pull off the Crucible of Malediction. Especially if he's riding with trueborn, it's like three eggs in one basket!

_________________
Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series


“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell
Back to top Go down
Lord Valestrane
Slave
Lord Valestrane


Posts : 15
Join date : 2012-12-03

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 18:01

I am siding with Mush's advice, If this S council is as bad as it sounds, I would beef out my list with as many bodies as possible. I'd rather have the 20 guardians, combined with all the points saving from dropping the wargear listed. More guns

Personally I think you have enough anti-armour. Beefing your troops seems viable. Give em something to chew through. And get him out of cover! in front of your guns.
Back to top Go down
Finn
Kabalite Warrior
Finn


Posts : 150
Join date : 2011-08-18
Location : Warsaw

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 18:08

The prisms are in the list for blasts and large blasts, marine and hordes management. I'll be using lance shots only if I have no better target. As an experienced player, I wholehartedly agree with you on the Council topic. But I know my Eldar friend is not that experienced and he uses his Council with subtlety of a hammer and this tactic should be ok Smile Especially when his in-your-face methods have never failed him.

_________________
"Don't place faith in human beings, human beings are unreliable things"
Machines of Loving Grace - Butterfly Wings
Back to top Go down
Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla


Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 18:11

Ahh I thought you were making a TAC list. Didn't realise you could change your list between games. Still risky business, so many points of failure in that Crucial Crucible plan. Smile

_________________
Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series


“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell
Back to top Go down
Finn
Kabalite Warrior
Finn


Posts : 150
Join date : 2011-08-18
Location : Warsaw

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 20:27

I am making a TAC list and no, I'm not able to swap lists between matches. But the whole kin-gift thing costs so little I can try to pull that off without dramatically changing the initial list, which was basicly all-vehicles-and-a-monstrous-creature. I will update this topic if there is any change in my list. Also, I will post battle reports for learning.

_________________
"Don't place faith in human beings, human beings are unreliable things"
Machines of Loving Grace - Butterfly Wings
Back to top Go down
Lord Valestrane
Slave
Lord Valestrane


Posts : 15
Join date : 2012-12-03

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 20:34

Much obliged

Good Luck!
Back to top Go down
Finn
Kabalite Warrior
Finn


Posts : 150
Join date : 2011-08-18
Location : Warsaw

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22 2013, 20:37

I will have my first game next week, sometime between tuesday and friday. AFAIK I will fight a Draigo and Paladins GK army.

_________________
"Don't place faith in human beings, human beings are unreliable things"
Machines of Loving Grace - Butterfly Wings
Back to top Go down
Finn
Kabalite Warrior
Finn


Posts : 150
Join date : 2011-08-18
Location : Warsaw

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 01 2013, 14:58

Finished the first game with 8 points for me and 12 points for my opponent. Overall, I'm pleased with how the list works. I played against Mephiston, Draigo, 2 Stormravens, a Dreadknight, 5 scouts and 4 paladins in three batches (1,1,3).

Mephiston and Dreadknight turned out to be immortal, as with such a volume of fire they should have statistically died 2 turns earlier. During those two turns they made a horrible mess. I was also sadly denied the pleasure of passing cover saves on my vehicles.

Overall, I scored linebreaker and first blood, while my opponent had 3 points from an objective and linebreaker. He also managed to contest my two objectives (6 points in total).

A very fun game, but against an army who just refused to die. The hero of the match on my side was one of the fireprisms who blew one of stormravens to pieces.

Waiting for the next opponent.

_________________
"Don't place faith in human beings, human beings are unreliable things"
Machines of Loving Grace - Butterfly Wings
Back to top Go down
Grub
Wych
Grub


Posts : 823
Join date : 2011-09-04

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2013, 11:23

It is always frustrating when things survive when they shouldn't. But the solution is always more shots! It sounds like it went quite well though, I'm interested, how did having only 15 troop models work out? I have always been a firm believer in having a lot of troops on the ground just because they are not durable enough to have in small numbers, what did you think?

_________________
Delicious and Coven-Baked for your Pleasure

A very slow, 30K Salamander Distraction Log: VULKAN LIVES
Back to top Go down
Finn
Kabalite Warrior
Finn


Posts : 150
Join date : 2011-08-18
Location : Warsaw

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2013, 12:09

During the last battle there WERE more shots aimed at both the Dreadknight and Mephiston Smile

It's also worth to mention that I did NOT foolishly divide my fire between those two until they each had one wound left. And even then there were issues with range, so I wasn't even able to focus on one threat. Sadly, both models failed to die for two rounds against all odds. Well, I think it's already a thing of the past, nothing to brag about.

As for the troops, had the rolls been statistical, 3x5 troops would have been sufficient. Of course, it requires careful play and one can forget about camping on objectives. But this is the beauty of a mech list consisting of fast, durable skimmers. You can spend the whole game on killing things and capturing the objectives during the last two rounds. Hopefully, until T4 you have already dealt with threats that are able to wipe your 5 squishy guys in one turn of shooting.

It's always a tradeoff - taking more killy stuff hampers your troop selection and vice versa. I took lots of vehicles and focused on the shooty part and after the game finished I still had two troops on the board. I lost one only becase of a failed Ld test - I rolled 11 and they ran off the table.

Having said that, I'd never take 15 troops in a pure DE list. The vehicles lack the durability to keep them alive and more - DE transports actually are a threat. Also, poisoned shooting is one of DE's strenghts and there really is no good reason not to go heavy on troops.

_________________
"Don't place faith in human beings, human beings are unreliable things"
Machines of Loving Grace - Butterfly Wings
Back to top Go down
Grub
Wych
Grub


Posts : 823
Join date : 2011-09-04

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2013, 12:45

Fair enough. I also run a mech list but gearing towards gunboat raiders with 10 in each and perhaps haywire wyches in venoms for some more anti tank. But like you said, having so much heavy support does limit how much you can take.
I am interested in how they will cope against other armies who typically field more models e.g. Eldar, Tau even some space marines. Because I would be worried that the troops could quite easily be wiped off the board preventing objective capture if there were sufficient shots coming in and anti tank. With so few bodies to play around with, judging by how unforgiving eldar and DE are, one small mistake or poor roll could be catastrophic for the entire lists competitiveness!
Again, good luck and keep us updated!

_________________
Delicious and Coven-Baked for your Pleasure

A very slow, 30K Salamander Distraction Log: VULKAN LIVES
Back to top Go down
Finn
Kabalite Warrior
Finn


Posts : 150
Join date : 2011-08-18
Location : Warsaw

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2013, 18:27

I've just finished a game against CSM + Daemons list. Typhus, flying daemon prince, zombies, 2 units of plague marines in rhinos, 2 helldrakes, an obliterator, pink horrors and that portal which spawns more daemons. Won 20:0 by tabling the opponent T5, getting slay the warlord, linebreaker, first blood and 3 objectives out of 4.

_________________
"Don't place faith in human beings, human beings are unreliable things"
Machines of Loving Grace - Butterfly Wings
Back to top Go down
Grub
Wych
Grub


Posts : 823
Join date : 2011-09-04

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2013, 19:21

Beautiful!

_________________
Delicious and Coven-Baked for your Pleasure

A very slow, 30K Salamander Distraction Log: VULKAN LIVES
Back to top Go down
Finn
Kabalite Warrior
Finn


Posts : 150
Join date : 2011-08-18
Location : Warsaw

1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16 2013, 17:33

Another league game against CSM. Another tabled opponent. The overall result 20:0, 17:2 in Victory Points. First blood and a a destroyed HS for him, 4 objectives, Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker, 3 destroyed HS units for me.

The game was nothing to write home about. I had a passive opponent who didn't know how to utilise his units. BUT: tabling CSM so frequently makes me smile, as I hold a grudge against this particular codex Twisted Evil 

_________________
"Don't place faith in human beings, human beings are unreliable things"
Machines of Loving Grace - Butterfly Wings
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies   1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
1600 Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies
Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» The PE Finale! 1600 Dark Eldar vs 1500 Dark Angels
» Eldur's Dark Eldar Army ---> NEW PICS, including CW Eldar (Ulthwé) Allies!!
» Dark Eldar w/ Eldar allies ALL COMERS list w/ solid airpower! Competitive
» 2000 point Dark Eldar with small eldar allies group: Revised
» Dark Eldar Coven Formations, w/ Eldar Allies for Null deploy

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

AELDARI ALLIES

 :: Craftworld Eldar, Ynnari, Harlequins & Corsairs
-
Jump to: