Against guard tactics

Going up against guard this week in a league game soon, I primarily run a traditional venom spam list, would this be affective against guard? Or would running more wyches with hay wires e better to counter tanks

Depends if it's fully mechanised guard (chimera spam). If so then venom spam normally has a rough time against it.

A rough time! Venom-spam vs. Mech Guard you might as well shake hands and go home! Take lances and blasters. Also, I posted some good advice about how to maximize multi-assault opportunities against lesser infantry like guard. I take PGL's on even my Kabalite units just for making sure they can hurdle Aegis lines and the like a duff those wimps up good and quick, like a blur I tell you!

Dug up the posts for you: Against infantry guard I would definitely want a couple of Raiders full of Wracks to get right up in his face turn 1. Go flat out with them and draw the fire of his whole army, he HAS to make them no.1 priority. Remember they are T4 with FNP as standard so half as likely to die from exploding Raiders as our other troops.

I always use special markers for blown up Raiders to mark the area terrain they end up inside, but a piece of card in the right shape rectangle will do, so that's a coversave followed by FNP. Another thing to consider is, make sure both those raiders have Grisly trophies and are 6" maximum apart after going flat-out. This will give re-rolls on leadership tests provided one of the Raiders survives, and with 4+ Jink that is quite likely given lasguns can't just glance them to death at S3. This makes it much less likely to be pinned or fall-back. Also note that an Acothyst ( Wrack sarge) is one point of LD better than a non ancient Haemo, for the same purpose.

Now, when you assault consider challenging, if your opponent accepts then you are practically guaranteed to stay in combat through his next turn, if the odds of destroying the whole unit are too high, consider attempting a multiple assault. Remember, Wracks with 2 pain tokens have furious charge, so a unit with a haemonculus hit guard on 3's, wounding on 3's with re-rolls, even against marines on charging turn, Try to swamp his lines, tying up as many units as possible at once, remember, losing charge bonus attacks for disordered (multiple) assaults isn't necessarily a bad thing in these circumstances. You just need to prevent large blocks of guard from shooting.

If you can pull this off you should have less trouble picking off other parts of his force at will. I have had success with this tactic against guard. Against infantry heavy guard, for example, they can be really effective though, especially when you're using disordered charge tactics to ensure you won't entirely wipe out your enemy until the end of their turn.

With good strategic placement of models,2 units of 10 warriors with a Spilntercannon/Shredder each can engage 2/3 units of guardsmen each. The trick, of course, is to wipe out most of your primary target with the 'cannon/shredder/Sybarite's pistol whilst being in position to commit most of your models to secondary targets. If you 'overlap' your targets, ie. have as many of your units simultaneously engaged with as many units as possible at the same time, the odds are very much in your favour that one of those 4-6 infantry squads will somehow pass their morale test at the end of your assault phase, meaning that as every squad of Kabalites has at least one model engaged with this particularly heroic squad they are safe from shooting in your opponents turn.

Yes, this tactic is very army specific, with only really Guard and equivalent being viable victims of it, plus you do need to be employing 'raider-rush' tactics (in the case I recall I had 7 Warrior Units up in his face turn 1) however, the shredders were really useful to ensure the primary target squad was all but eliminated as a fighting force allowing me to only send one or two warriors in as a 'token' engagement and focus my assault on the other units. This enabled me to slaughter my way through 4 infantry squads and 2 heavy weapon teams in 2 assault phases, practically winning the game by turn 3.

Edited post to make a easier to read. Cheers - Cavash.

Sorry didnt read post above because, well wall of text.

Anyway, I actually have pulled up two wins latly against IG, who I think is our worst matchup. But I have to admit it wasnt against the best of oponents.

Venomspam isnt really the answer against Mech IG, but then again I try to stay on my turnement lists vs them. I have found that Beastmaster group and Wraithknight will cause havoc and panic against them. You can easlie be in CC in turn two with both those groups, and backed up by haywire wyches, then you can be a real threat as they need to actually choose targets.

Then again it all depends on what kind of list your oponent fields, but if its MechIG, then fear and hope for first turn or you might not survive for a long time.

I have a friend who only plays IG and always runs a mech list, lots of chimeras, Leman Russ' and other nasties. I usually take as many lances as I can possibly fit in to my list and that works well, I rarely lose to him..

Haywire wyches for troops, blasterborn for elites, Ravagers for heavy.
A single blaster in a venom is worthless.
5 wyches will pop a russ, although beware charging chimeras, the flamers will kill them.

Thank you guys for the replies! And yes thi guy does play mech guard..... So would 5 wyches Ina venom be worth it? Or stay warriors with some wracks

Against Mech guard:

Wyches hwg > Warriors blaster >>>>>>>>>>> Wracks

With the wyches should I assault the tanks or jus throw the grenades from the venom

Assault tanks, shoot transports.
Maybe, assault if you have something to eat overrated

How does this list look...

Archon-husk blade, soul trap, shadow field, combat drugs, ghost plate armor
Haemonculous-venom blade
8x wyches-hekatrix, venom blade, shard net, 4 grenades
Raider-flicker field

5x wyches- haywire grenades
Venom- cannon

5x wyches- haywire grenades
Venom- cannon

5x warriors-blaster
Venom-cannon

5x warriors-blaster
Venom-cannon

5x warriors
Venom-cannon

3x trueborn- 2 dark lances
Venom-cannon

Ravager- flicker field

Ravager-flicker field

Ravager-flicker field

On the 8 wych squad you only have 4 grenades? You need to arm the whole squad with grenades, not just 4 models.

You'd be better off hiding the lanceborn in a building/ruins than in a venom imo.

If you can, try to get nightshields on the ravagers, it's well worth it vs guard.

I know what would be good against guard and it works all the time for me. Raider Spam as u have 10 warriors with racks in a raider with a dark lance and bring more than 3 that way u have AT and AI at the same time;) its proven to work. I beat leman russes all day with that list and killed lots of regimentsof guard with twinlinked awesomeness. Hope that helped

You look to be wasting points on your Archon. Ghostplate armour is redundant; if you lose your Shadowfield you're as good as dead anyway. Combat drugs are also not necessary, whatever you charge you will kill with or without them. CheZZoR is correct also, you are not allowed to arm some of the Wyches with HWG and not the others. Eldritch makes a good point: Raiders give you more AT shooting, not only with the Lance on the Raider, but the one you can take on the Warriors in the Raider. I would also consider: is your opponent likely to bring Valkyries/Vendettas? If so, how are you able to deal with any fliers? Nightshields are definitely more useful to you than Flickers on the Ravagers in any case.

ghostplate armour? 6+ invuln you say? I CAN GO UP AGAINST THE WORLD!!!! -get's shot by bolter-