Phantasm Grenade Launchers

I've seen most of the people here always advice to take an Archon with PGL in order to give your Incubi assault grenades. However in most of my games, I have never found a use for it.

This is because my Incubi get into combat with a unit of my choice, which usually means I'm winning and which means I won't care much if a few of them die. Or they get stranded on the middle of the board and get into combat with an enemy deathstar, who I've never seen hiding in cover.

So thoughts? Is the PGL really that necessary? Or should I use the points for an additional Incubus?

I like the PGL. The assault grenades are good, but lets not forget that the PGL also givers you Defensive Grenades. Sure you're got a 3+ armour save, but a backup cover save is not to be sniffed at.

Squidmaster wrote:

Sure you're got a 3+ armour save, but a backup cover save is not to be sniffed at.

I dare say, it often is essential.
Also, I can't count the times, I couldn't attack my preferred target, because of lacking the PGL...

I always take the PGL, most times I actually do need it, but I'd really hate to be in a position where I don't have it and it means my opponent has a greater say in where and how combats take place. I want to take away their ability to dictate the game and a PGL helps me do this.

Elzadar wrote:

So thoughts? Is the PGL really that necessary? Or should I use the points for an additional Incubus?

The value of cover from Overwatch and striking at initiative is, to my mind, equivilent to saving the lives of 2-3 Incubi, thus making it a better value buy on average than an equal amount of points spent buying additional Incubi, which would net you less.

I dropped Incubi in favour of Grotesques, but I found the Incubi, once I had lost a few to their transport exploding, then another to Overwatch, then another few to Init 1, no longer did the job.
If I were taking Incubi, the PGL would be a must.

Grots manage fine without it, I find. They can survive the hits.

commandersasha wrote:

I dropped Incubi in favour of Grotesques, but I found the Incubi, once I had lost a few to their transport exploding, then another to Overwatch, then another few to Init 1, no longer did the job.
If I were taking Incubi, the PGL would be a must.

Grots manage fine without it, I find. They can survive the hits.

Interesting

commandersasha wrote:

Grots manage fine without it, I find. They can survive the hits.

And your opponent can survive your hits, too. Easier than the hits of Incubi, don't you think?
Not me, of course, with my bad luck...

I run a boring and plain 8 man incubi squad with a raider and aether sails. It is usually the MVP of my games. Without PGL the targets are different, but I find that hitting a non-cc unit early will be effective. It is generally overkill on turn 2/3, but really comes unto it's own on turn 4,5,6. There are usually a few less incubi, but they are buffed up considerably and usually have fearless. 2-3 incubi that are fearless can really wreck a non-cc flank.

A few other thoughts:

When they fail, it is epically so.

The raider is usually still hanging around and can redeploy incubi or pick up a stranded troop choice.

I use incubi as AP3 and never go after terminators. The 5++ and mass power weapons are brutal. AP2 is nice if there is a captain, but I generally try and overkill small units rather than use the incubi as a death star.

My at is very much MSU and no unit is overly useful on its own. Incubi seem to do very well with a squad if 8 in my list. The list is very CV heavyheavy and small units. They are what I like so I made the models work for me.

Myrvn wrote:

I use incubi as AP3 and never go after terminators. The 5++ and mass power weapons are brutal. AP2 is nice if there is a captain, but I generally try and overkill small units rather than use the incubi as a death star.

Even when you get your first painmarker? Now I got curious!
How do you deal with Terminators? I mostly kill them with my Ravager,
but most Players here don't use Disruptors...

I don't use them.

Even when I take them I normally forget that they're there. Despite this I still win more games than I lose (by a tiny margin, but it still counts).

I'm shocked. Without them, my wit-to-loose-ratio would, hm, lets say the opposite.
And it is not that bad. 60% win, rest is fifty-fifty loose and draw.

So, back to the terminators. How do you kill them? I mean, massive Splinterfire would work,
but it seems pretty uneffektive with a 2+ armor roll. To be honest, I did that a lot myself,
but now I let my Incubi, or my ravager do the job.

On the other hand, we here just play for fun, without just using, what is supposed to be the best.
So, what do I know?   No offense meant.

I usually bring two ravagers, one with lances and one with disintegrators. A dissie gun boat can really put the hurt on termites, especially with guide.

If I run into a single squad of termites I generally ignore it for a while. Even with a land raider they are fairly static. Kill everything else, then pounce on the termites with dissies and mass splinter. Maybe a Wyches squad to tie them up.

Against mass termie armies I generally do ok due to smaller enemy model count, but it is a royal pain.

I fully admit my list is not "ideal" , I take the models I think look cool.

I think I'm going to try not using PGL for a while and see how big of a difference it makes for me. Probably best way to find out




Also I only use my Incubi against terminators when I really, really have no other choice.

I remember back when I started player Dark Eldar in 5th edition. I had my Archon and Incubi run into a squad of 5 terminators on turn 1. The terminators made all their 5++ saves and then proceeded to wipe out the entire Incubi squad in one turn.

Sometimes Incubi can go toe to toe with terminators, but it remains very risky.