NEW Dark Eldar Player

So after seeing DE in tournys, playing attack Eldar and knowing the offencive eldar Idea for 8 years, reading the DE codex many many times, reading many many forum posts, and just loving everything Dark Eldar I finally have the money to drop on a 2000pt Dark Eldar army. I am starting by buying the entire 2000k list at once...

As for my army I have a few restrictions...

1. Razorwings. I MUST USE 2... I LOVE THE DAMN MODEL SOOOO DAMN MUCH and everyone I know who uses DE competatively say they are not competative... And since everyone says the same about my tourny winning CSM I will take the challange to run 2 in a competaive list

2. uh... ya.. it has to be dak eldar... whatever...

Here is my first army list after many many moons of thought. The archon is a copy of my buddies archon that he stands behind compleetly.. and since I have seen him win multiple tournies I will agree with him. I know blasterborn spam is evil, but Dark Eldar are the most evil elves... (Since Eldar are just regular evil elves)

I really want to find another 3man squad of reavers but cant find the poits to do so. I thought about removing the wracks and heamy for another warrior squad and reavers... I dont know... What do you guys think?

135 – Archite – Venom Blade, Soul-Trap, Shadow Field, Combat Drugs, Djin Blade
60 – Haemonculus – Liquifier gun

196 – Wyches x8 – Hekatrix, Agonizer, Haywires
Raider – Flickerfield
196 – Wyches x8 – Hekatrix, Agonizer, Haywires
Raider – Flickerfield
130 – Wracks x5 – Liquifier Gun
Raider – Flickerfield

125 – Warriors x5 – Blaster
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon
125 – Warriors x5 – Blaster
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon

78 – Reavers x3 – Heat Lance

173 – Trueborn x4 – 4x Blasters
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon
173 – Trueborn x4 – 4x Blasters
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon
173 – Trueborn x4 – 4x Blasters
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon

155 – Razorwing – Flickerfields
155 – Razorwing – Flickerfields
125 – Ravager – Flickerfield, Nightshield

Total 1999

ok, let me begin.

HQ: I have seen this Archon set up used, and I personally hate it. The idea behind it is to get the soul-trap off with the Venom blade, then switch to using the dijnn blade after it. But to me a soul-trap and dijnn blade should never be used. Why take a chance of ID yourself because you messed up on two rolls. (and yes, i have seen it happen on multiple occasions, my DE cohort at my LGW used to use this set-up all the time, was quite funny to watch.) Also its tough to kill an IC with a venom blade, even the little ones like Priests are tough to crack without a power weapon.

I dont see the point of the Haemie, and Ill get to it when I talk about the wracks.

Troops: Wyches are fine, I like to field them in 7s though, so you might be able to save a few points there, but other than that they are fine.

I dont see the point in wracks in your list. They are there to be a tough unit to take off of objectives, for another venom, or for their flamer. With only 5, they arent going to be good in combat (even with FC) and while they are packing two flamers, i think those points could be used elsewhere. This ofc includes the Haemie.

Warriors are fine, you might want to get another though instead of the wracks.

Elites: Fine

HS: I know what you have heard about Razorwings, but to each their own. I would try with just one first and see what you personally think. The model is nice, but if you havent played with it yet, you dont know what people mean when they say "It always die first" and "it cant get cover".

Also those NS on the ravager is alittle weird. I would save points and drop them, but try it out and see what it does for you.

Onemeanduck wrote:

1. Razorwings. I MUST USE 2... I LOVE THE DAMN MODEL SOOOO DAMN MUCH and everyone I know who uses DE competatively say they are not competative...

Razorwings are very competitive. Anyone who says they aren't is probably just switching Ravagers out for them without understanding that a Razorwing isn't a Ravager.

Onemeanduck wrote:

135 – Archite – Venom Blade, Soul-Trap, Shadow Field, Combat Drugs, Djin Blade
60 – Haemonculus – Liquifier gun

Fine with the Haem.
The Archon is...okay. Pretty expensive for what he's doing, and frankly I think it's a waste. Just give me an Agoniser to start with and I'm pretty sure I'll rack up more kills than this guy because he'll need to waste time setting up his combo trying to kill an IC with a poison weapon that allows armor saves.

Onemeanduck wrote:

196 – Wyches x8 – Hekatrix, Agonizer, Haywires
Raider – Flickerfield
196 – Wyches x8 – Hekatrix, Agonizer, Haywires
Raider – Flickerfield

So...one gets a Haem and the other gets the Archon? No real issues, though I think you'd be well served dropping the Archon for just a second Haem.

Quote :

130 – Wracks x5 – Liquifier Gun
Raider – Flickerfield

Fine with this. This would actually be a better place to have your Archon than the Wyches - the Archon could still a pain token and go off to hunt MCs/ICs while the Wracks flame stuff.

Quote :

125 – Warriors x5 – Blaster
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon
125 – Warriors x5 – Blaster
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon

Okay with these.
At 2000 points I think you're running a criminally low amount of Troops - yes, I'm saying that with you running 5 of 6.

Quote :

78 – Reavers x3 – Heat Lance

These are okay insomuch as you need more anti-mech, though for not many more points you could get Warriors w. Blaster in a Raider w. FF and do better for yourself.

Quote :

173 – Trueborn x4 – 4x Blasters
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon
173 – Trueborn x4 – 4x Blasters
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon
173 – Trueborn x4 – 4x Blasters
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon

A cheap point tweak would be to drop them to 3 man with 3 Blasters - would net you 81 points and let you field a 2nd RJB squad...or drop that RJB squad and field more Troops.

Quote :

155 – Razorwing – Flickerfields
155 – Razorwing – Flickerfields
125 – Ravager – Flickerfield, Nightshield

I am very much against this.

"But, Thor, you said Razorwings are competitive!"

I did. But you're falling into the trap of thinking they're functional as opposed to Ravagers - they are not, they're different. In short - Razorwings are great at killing infantry. They compete with Venoms. Ravagers are good at killing mech. They compete with Raiders.

You have 5 Venoms (60 poison shots)
Wracks and Liquifier (templates and poison stabbing assault)
2 Wych squads (also good at assaulting and killing infantry.
Oh, that other Liquifier on the Haem (die infantry, die!)
That uber expensive Archon with poison sword and goal of getting super strength for murdering infantry.
Then you have two flyers with the capability to drop down AP5 Str 6 large blasts...you think those things are for killing tanks?

What do you have to kill tanks?
3 Trueborn squads (unlikely to be able to get in range Turn 1)
1 Ravager
3 Raiders (2 of them being pretty likely to want to go flat out Turn 1)
2 Razorwings...presuming they decide to waste their missiles or shoot at something without using their missiles.

So, I don't like you mix. I'd suggest trimming back on Venoms for more Raiders, or maybe turning the Wracks into Blaster Warriors in Raiders. More Raiders will help your alpha strike on mech quite a lot. Razorwings should be looking to lay down a hellstorm of blasts on top of Lootas/Longfangs/Ork Mobs/ et al on turn 1. By Turn 2 you can turn your attention to other stuff, but don't waste that awesome barrage capability with the missiles.

My thoughts,
Thor.

I agree with you on the archon after reeding the Djin Blade debat. I thought I would get5 Venom attacks and 2Djin attacks.. but nop.. Proll trading him for a succubus and another squad of RJB with a few tweeks..

Yes I understand the idea of not using razorwings at a mix tank. But here I go with this argument.... Dark Lances are actually IMHO just as good as dizzies for troop killing. Yes 2vs6 shots is a big difference. But now you got insta kill shots vs multi wounds. IE Paladins... You got better chances of doing thing vs MC!. AND YOU CAN kill tanks..

I have played Eldar for 8 years, I compleetly understand the concept of making units that do what they do amazing effective.. But everyonnce and a while a multi purpose unit is really nice to have. The ability to nuke squads then attack tanks or visa versa is really nice...

I do have one more rraider I can trade a venom for. And with trimming down or taking out the archon I will add another heat lance in the bikes... I am actually thinking of taking out the heamy, changing wracks to warriors, and using a sucubus for kult themed army.

85 – Succubus – Agonizer
60 – Haemonculus – Liquifier Gun,

196 – Wyches x8 – Hekatrix, Agonizer, Haywires
Raider – Flickerfield
196 – Wyches x8 – Hekatrix, Agonizer, Haywires
Raider – Flickerfield
130 – Wracks x5 – Liquifier Gun
Raider – Flickerfield

125 – Warriors x5 – Blaster
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon
125 – Warriors x5 – Blaster
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon

78 – Reavers x3 – Heat Lance
78 – Reavers x3 – Heat Lance

146 – Trueborn x4 – 3x Blasters
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon
173 – Trueborn x4 – 4x Blasters
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon
173 – Trueborn x4 – 4x Blasters
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon

155 – Razorwing – Flickerfields
155 – Razorwing – Flickerfields
125 – Ravager – Flickerfield, Nightshield

Total 1999
Round 2
The Heamy will start with a squad of wyches. Leave them and jump with the wracks to give the pain to wyches.

The succubus will start with wracks and join the other wyches. Wracks have 2 liguifire guns and no pain tokesn... I will try it out a little bit before i go either way.

Each wych squad has pain tokesn... Supid little trick but it may work.. unless i roll 6 for comat drugs then whatever.. I also done mind running the heamy with wyches if I have too.

Other option is pulling the wracks and heamy alltogether and getting anothe warrior squad and soemthing extra.. maybe..

and YES i was planning on shooting missiles first every game. And i dont see how you cant get those blasterborn in range first turn? move 12, shoot 18... 30inches is pretty easy...

I like this second list and think you will do fine and have fun while playing it. I disagree that Night Shields are a waste on Ravagers. Ask an IG player how their Chimeras like having to move towards you to shoot back making a charge for your Wyches with haywire grenades even easier the next turn.

I haven't been able to come up with a feasible list to use Razorwings yet, but the model is so damned beautiful that I doubt it will take more than a couple of months for me to find an excuse

One thing aboutmy area. We have two types of players and a very large player group. We have all the min max mech armies out there but all the extreemly good players have drifted away from razorback spam and such. All and all we are finding that two expert players will find other alternatives to mech heavy lists. I managed to place 2nd at the biggest local tourny with a CSM using only 4 rhinos as my mech where the normal mech guard players an mech wolves got slaughtered.

So I NEEED things that kill squads fast.. I think the razorwing army is my theme an will try and try and try endlessly..

Whats funny is a DarkEldar player with less anti tank then my army took first place.. funny how that works.. he even had the archons court and a 160 point archon..

If you need to kill squads fast=2XRazorwings should do the trick!

I like the new list better than the last list, though I still think you have too many Venoms and not enough Raiders considering your Razorwings.

Onemeanduck wrote:

The Heamy will start with a squad of wyches. Leave them and jump with the wracks to give the pain to wyches.

The succubus will start with wracks and join the other wyches. Wracks have 2 liguifire guns and no pain tokesn... I will try it out a little bit before i go either way.

I see no reason not to just leave the Haem in the Wych Raider. Succubus stealing is fine, though it prevents her ability to assault Turn 1.

Quote :

and YES i was planning on shooting missiles first every game. And i dont see how you cant get those blasterborn in range first turn? move 12, shoot 18... 30inches is pretty easy...

Disembark 2 while we're at it if you're planning to make that move.
Depending how the opponent deploys though this is hardly assured Turn 1 shooting since it's 36" from your deployment zone to his back wall in a straight line - if he doesn't deploy right across from your Blasterborn and doesn't press the deploymentline (both pretty default actions for a well played gunline in my opinion) you might be able to get 1 or 2 Blasterborn squads in...maybe.
DoW can also add some complications to the plot.
Raiders and Ravagers are much better for Turn 1 anti-tank range as almost nothing can hide from them no matter how they deploy.
I personally think it's suboptimal to disembark your Trueborn right away like that in any case, but that's a personal value call and I also build my lists so I don't need to do that.

Onemeanduck wrote:

I think the razorwing army is my theme an will try and try and try endlessly..

There are successful Razorwing tourney lists. At least two variations I've seen.
We also have some members who note in their local stores the Razorwing is considered"broken" and most players prefer not to see it fielded for fear of its power.
It's not going to be a difficult uphill struggle, don't worry.

Well I know my skill at 40k is sound. I have made people say that CSM are cheezy and a bs army... haha And my eldar is feared around the area as well... now if only I can make daemons work...

I have looked it over many many times and I doubt I will every really want to make a first turn assault..
I have really wanted to start using Lady Malys simply because she brings the cool factor. I was thinking about changing my fluff to wrap around Lady Malys and her twins (Razorwings)

So I am really looking into making a Malys razorwing competative army.. I will make it work.

The Razor really comes into its own when there's loads of grunts out to 'scythe. I'd dedicate some more squads to AT; as sexy as poison shots are, they don't do jack **** if you can't pop those transports and so Raiders would do more for your strategy than Venoms. Call it too much of a good thing.

I dont think I need any more anti tank actually. Around here mech only armies dont do so well. My meta favors more hybrid lists... I mean the major tourny last week (Biggest in my area) had mostly hybrid lists.. The mech spam got slaughtered... IE Mechvets guarrd got smoked and so forth... The actual Dark Eldar that won it has less anti tank then me. And my army got 2nd with only 4 rhinos as my armor...

With the more experanced players comes less and less internet spam lists... Meaning less tanks, so the meta has changed for me.

And here I thought I was an experienced player...waaaah.

Lol Im a 10 yr vet, and a 8 yr DE Vet, and still mech spam

Also know alot of 1+ yr vets that mech spam too... funny huh

Also Im kinda interested in how a hybrid list would be a full mech spam. Its hard to footslog up against 5+ las/plas BA with correct backup. What type of Hybrids are winning around you??? ofc meta is different from everyone, but still... I wouldnt call Longfangs sitting outside their Razorback a hybrid list

most players will mech spam.. Out best players around here run. Tank/Flying BA.. 2k he has 9 attack bikes, full assaults squad 1-2, razorbacks, vindies, ect ect. a few space wolves with mostly foot IE thunderwolves, droppods with infantry... an ork horde / funny army... crazy good though... My CSM that runs 4 rhinos in 2k. I won Ard boys with 5 rhinos and a Land Raider. The rest walked/deepstriked... there is a very compettaive daemon and darkwing player with no tanks...

It pretty much turned into mechspame for a while till people started maxing melta guns.. Now hybrid lists rule the area do to overmeltas... If you can pull some of the effectivness from your opponent you gain an advantage..

All I am saying is in tournies or not I rarely see an army that doesnt have a few squads that arent long fangs walking around... And I tell you around here mechspam lists dont win tournies...

How I have found hybrid lists to work is you must find an alternate way to get your troops into battle. My CSM deepstrike a lot. Oblits, Terminators, Daemons... The rhinos are there to move 12 inches and die... they die pretty much everygame... Other lists optimize shooting to force your opponent to move where you want them too. Or use fast infantry IE BA, Bike armies. Have tricks up uyour sleave IE Grey Knights, Space Wovles... Very rerely do I see tac squads hoofin it acroos the table.. But I have seen many armies sporting no transports and having no problem getting around... Its all how you play..

All this being said I prolly need to increas my Antitank because too many lances means your playing eldar....

I havent seen a herohammer Thunderwolves work in quite some time, Although I had a friend that went to NOVA (couldnt make it, work and all) that got beat by one, but that was just because of spearhead and terrain placement (the guy put his TW behind LOS blocking terrain, and then moved them up and ran perfectly behind the middle one, in which they just sat there till T5, then pushed into my friends deployment zone.)

lol yah DS does solve alot of problems, but few armies have those in spades. Also that whole "you cant assault out of DS" Thing hurts most DS armies, just look at Daemons, who rely on Bolt spam to really surive past T1.

DoA and Deathwing being the exception (man, them getting updated Stormshields for free is a crime) I havent seen any footslogging list really work (btw I dont include drop pods or bikes, as I see them as mech.) Now parts of an army can footslog, as our Beasts or Assault Marines, but they have things that modify their movement (and run helps alot) that allows them to get into combat quicker than previous editions. Even things like Dragowing and Loganwing suffer if they dont have a few LRs or Drop pods to help them along.