Do you play 1000 point games with your DE.

When I started playing 40k back in the day (and I mean back in the day) it was almost a given that we played at 1000 - 1250 points. Now a days people complain when they are limited to only 1500 points. What transpired to alter the gaming landscape? Let me tell what the advantages of 1000 point games are first ...

1000 point games allow you to:

- Playing at 1000 points lets you familiarize yourself with a small amount of units. Usually we can only field 4 or 5 different units in 1000 points. This is great as it allows us to learn how those units work. I can compare venoms to splinter rack raiders - grots to incubi, see if I like a talos. Then I get to see how best to deploy these units and advance them up the table.

- A game is done in around an hour. An hour long game. Seriously, when was the last time you did that? That means you can get a few games in without stress in a afternoon or evening.

- If we are playing at 1000 points we get to try more missions, so we can get used to multiple missions without struggling through your rulebook for 3 hours playing a single game. I see what units are decent for relic. What units are good in maelstorm. What units excel at crusade. I also get to experiment more with deployment.

- We don't have deal with crazy OP units at 1000 points and generally we will see less FW. Only a jerk brings a Lord of War, and most armies can't afford those units anyway and still be competitive. So even if they bring three IKs you will learn how to avoid and deal with it at 1000 points.

- Because we get more games in, we can also try totally different builds, formations, detachments and special rules, as we can decide which suits are play style best.

So thoughts on this and what restrictions or units would you use at this level? I'm planning on running a few tournaments that start at 750 and escalate to 1250. The only rule would be single codex and as we escalate we can exchange up to two units in our list for another - this keeps it entertaining. Then we can add new units comfortably with additions and exchanges combined.

I'm a huge fan of 1000-1500 point games for the above reasons. Honestly I have no idea why tournament want to play above 1500 points. All it does is cramp the board and makes slow play a problem. Seriously I'd much rather get more games in and play the full 5-7 turns rather then have some obsec wave serpent jerk slow play so that he can guarantee the game ends on turn 5.

Recently I have been thoroughly enjoying 1250 point games and a lot of the single day local events in my area use this points level as it means you can get 5-6 games in in one day.

As for learning/list tweeking starting small and getting to grips with the core of your army is so much easier at this level.

I enjoy games in all point ranges. 1250 and under are great because of the low time involved. They are also great for newer gamers, or someone who has just started collecting an army. I can't field my Tau above 1500, for example, and can't field them competitively over 1000.

On the other hand, I have over 6000 points of Dark Eldar (probably closing in on 10). I have several units I've never even had a chance to play on the battlefield. There are certain units, formations, or combinations that are only available at a larger point size, and I sure don't want to miss out on that! With Imperial, Chaos, or Eldar armies, you also have a huge panoply of allies to choose from, which opens up even greater options.

In short, 40k games are like women.

They can be big, they can be small, but I like both as long as I get to play in one.

Yeah I think smaller games teach you the game much better. let's not forget that 'back in the day' when I started - 2nd edition - a game with far fewer miniatures took just as long becuase the rules were more convoluted and time consuming (ever played a multiple combat in 2nd edition? One round could take half an hour no problem!).

That being said, if you've only got 3-4 units on the table, you really learn how to make the most of them. But once you've got that knowledge, then larger games I find more entertaining because I can bring the full spread of units I like to use.

As others have said, my collection is more extensive than the game sizes I play, with my Dark Eldar currently optimised for 1500-2000pts. I am planning to run a series of games over the summer at much bigger points levels though (3000) and hope to do some nice detailed reports on them (anyone have any tips on getting different unit icons in battle chronicler?).

I'm currently running an escalation style campaign at my club running from kill team through 500, 750, 1000, 1500 and 2000 to a 1500 per player carnage game - we got the kill team, 500 and 750 games done in an evening with 6 players and rolling missions and opponents randomly - everyone had a blast (well, all bar one guy who got tabled twice and only had about three models survive the three games).

TL:DR - I agree with Jimsolo - sometimes I like chocolate, sometimes I prefer sweets, I just don't like diets.

I did not mean to insinuate that I disliked games at 1750 - 2500, I quite enjoy them. I just do not get the prevalent internet attitude that at 1000 points you cannot field an entertaining list. I just posted some thoughts on melee armies in my craftworld thread. I find that in smaller games you have can be successful running a melee list as comfortably as a shooty list. In fact hybrid lists and less spam generally does better at smaller points levels. Once I'm getting to 1850+ I find I am spamming certain core units to remain competitive and frankly, often the games are just not as much fun. That said I play a lot of 30k so at 1000 points playing mechanicum , I have to be careful not to overload on powerful units - no one wants to play a Legio list with all castallax as troops and one thanatar. So I do mix and match a bit so both my opponent and me can enjoy the game.

Which brings up another point. I find in smaller games that players tend to be less concerned with bringing a waac list and more focused on bringing a list they will enjoy running.

BTW, Burnin Eye - your article on deployment  (on the blog) was excellent.

http://www.theburningeye.blogspot.ca/

This was well worth the read.

We run 2 player campaign with buddy, and we constantly shift point level, like we have big battle with Eternal War missions, then 1k point game with Maelstorm missions, representing pushing the advantage/defending vital points, then kill team game.

All sizes are hot and almost like a different games in themselves.

Who said you can't field an entertaining list at lower points? I don't think I've ever seen that opinion expressed ever, on the net or otherwise.

I think large point lists and small point lists are equally entertaining, but in different ways.

Funny though, I think that spam happens more at smaller values. At larger values, the limits of your collection eventually force you to get creative.

Jimsolo wrote:

Who said you can't field an entertaining list at lower points? I don't think I've ever seen that opinion expressed ever, on the net or otherwise.

I cannot tell you how many times I've heard that 1000 poinyts is too limiting. Complaints about how they cannot use all the OP models they want ( think LoWs, large expensive deathstars, etc.) is a relatively common observation I thought.

As for spam lists - well you can spam a bit at 1000 points but really i rarely see more than two of the same unit. Now some codex are a bit easier to spam with I admit. But at larger point levels spam is becoming almost commonplace ( wave serpent, venom, bike, flyrant, broadsides, riptides, etc.).

Well.. I know back in the Day when I started a 1500 point game and today a 2k game is about the same length in time.

There is a friend That I play with sometimes (he knows his books and other books extremely well, good at math and % etc..) when me and him play, we can get a 2k game done in about Hour and half with 6 rounds.

Fastest 2k game with 5 turns was 45min, We just knew what dice to do, knew our movements and didnt have to ask any questions or look anything up.

Jimsolo wrote:

Who said you can't field an entertaining list at lower points? I don't think I've ever seen that opinion expressed ever, on the net or otherwise.

I think large point lists and small point lists are equally entertaining, but in different ways.

Funny though, I think that spam happens more at smaller values. At larger values, the limits of your collection eventually force you to get creative.

Ive never seen anyone said small point games arnt fun or creative.

I played 1000 points when I started Dark Eldar. My list consisted of a Haemonculus, 10 Kabalite Warriors, 10 Wyches, a Raider, 3 Reavers and 5 Scourges, before I started experimenting with other units.

Quote :

Ive never seen anyone said small point games arnt fun or creative.

I have a number of people tend to complain at times at 1000 points because they cannot fit in all the models they want to use. I have been told on a number of occasions that it is restricting. I don't agree either. I rather like a 1000 point game from time to time.

The thread has reminded how complex the rules used be for assault and shooting in the old days. Yes, games did tend to go on longer. I have never finished a 2000 point game in 45 minutes, BTW. Kudos to you.

I think our units are cheap thus typically many. So 1k points might not he as limiting tones as itbisnfor other armies that for instance build up on a strong character or even deathstar.

So as I read your feedback of what other people tell you and as I read the posts here I draw that conclusion that it might be more fun for us DE players than it is for for other armies (not saying no fun for them, maybe just less)

I personally also like to play smaller games, with 1500 as my upper limit and 1000 as my minimum. It is quick and you can utilize terrain more effectively as you can fit a bigger portion of your army into it (which gets difficult when you have much on the table)

Having less units on the board also means our mobility advantage increases.

So all in all I think our army benefit more from smaller games than other armies do. But I also doubt that this is the reason for DE players to enjoy these games. I would say they require more maneuvering skills and tactics than larger games