Optimum Scourge Loadouts

It's actually 33.33% chance to inflict a Hull Point on an AV12+ vehicle with no save. That goes up to 44.44% for AV11 and 55.55% for AV10.

It's still pretty poor for it's cost. I actually prefer to use them against heavy infantry rather than vehicles.

Mine did a very good job last game. Killing everything they shot at or at least making it inefficient for one round.

I have 5 count heat lance squad and 5 count haywire squad. Heat lances do so well. They came in, killed a knight, the knight landed on them and three survived. Also, haywire is good at general tank hunting. I use my heat lances for tanks and teqs as was said.

While counter to the philosophy of maximizing heavy/special weapons, has anyone tried 8-10 Scourge with just Carbines? It would be dedicated anti-infantry. It isn't something DE usually need, but they seem effective for that role.

Why do just carbines? Why not 10 and 4 have splinter cannons? Same range if they move, more shots. 34 poison shots total.

A bunch of Scourges with shardcarbine can munch through infantry. But like you pointed other things can do it just as well with greater survivability than them.

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Why do just carbines? Why not 10 and 4 have splinter cannons? Same range if they move, more shots. 34 poison shots total.

Cause it costs a Venom (5 points short) to fully kit out 4 Splinter Cannons. Myrvyn, you answered yourself to why nobody plays 10-man Shardcarabine Scourges. Such a squad costs 160 points, which is two Venoms and 30 points free for other stuff, at only 6 more shots. This is the same problem as with Hellions: we just have stuff that does that better. At 165 points you have a 10 man Kabalites squad in a Raider with 20 Twin-Linked shots, 3 Disintegrator Shots and 3+ Jink, so that's that.

mightydoughnut wrote:

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Why do just carbines? Why not 10 and 4 have splinter cannons? Same range if they move, more shots. 34 poison shots total.

Cause it costs a Venom (5 points short) to fully kit out 4 Splinter Cannons. Myrvyn, you answered yourself to why nobody plays 10-man Shardcarabine Scourges. Such a squad costs 160 points, which is two Venoms and 30 points free for other stuff, at only 6 more shots. This is the same problem as with Hellions: we just have stuff that does that better. At 165 points you have a 10 man Kabalites squad in a Raider with 20 Twin-Linked shots, 3 Disintegrator Shots and 3+ Jink, so that's that.

this

its a big flaw in the codex i think when you want to take something then mathhammer it down to find out you are limited to very few optimum options

They could release a supplement to fix some stuff, but why do this when you can sell more Speesh Mareensssh models? Print a 20$ book with additional DE formations, a Decurion and some fluff. They won't make mad bucks but you will sell more DE models and even these that don't sell well might start to if you give them useful rules.

True. Just thinking of methods to use them if people like the models. It is almost like having an option for Fire Dragons to get 0-4 awesome anti-infantry weapons. Why? The basic gun is very good at what it does. Same with Scourge. And why would anyone bring Fire Dragons when Wraithflamers are so much better?

I don't use Scourge, but anti infantry seems to be their best load out.

8-10 4+ saves may be more durable than an AV10 2HP vehicle, but that would be meta dependent. A standard gun boat probably does make more sense if aiming for efficiency.

Myrvn wrote:

It is almost like having an option for Fire Dragons to get 0-4 awesome anti-infantry weapons. Why? The basic gun is very good at what it does. Same with Scourge. And why would anyone bring Fire Dragons when Wraithflamers are so much better?

I don't use Scourge, but anti infantry seems to be their best load out.

Replacing melta guns on the fire dragons would be ludicrous, as you say, as their primary purpose is a specialist anti armour unit. youre buying them specifically for that.

The scourge standard loadout is so-so anti-infantry fire, we can get that just as successfully from our mandatory troops slots. If im using up a valuable fast attack slot it needs to be doing something special. Ideally something that im struggling for elsewhere.
I think 5 with 4 haywires are probably the best loadout for them, but having used them multiple times ive never been overly convinced theyre worth the cost. I'd rather spending around the same number of points on reavers. It is a shame as they are lovely models.

mightydoughnut wrote:

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Why do just carbines? Why not 10 and 4 have splinter cannons? Same range if they move, more shots. 34 poison shots total.

Cause it costs a Venom (5 points short) to fully kit out 4 Splinter Cannons. Myrvyn, you answered yourself to why nobody plays 10-man Shardcarabine Scourges. Such a squad costs 160 points, which is two Venoms and 30 points free for other stuff, at only 6 more shots. This is the same problem as with Hellions: we just have stuff that does that better. At 165 points you have a 10 man Kabalites squad in a Raider with 20 Twin-Linked shots, 3 Disintegrator Shots and 3+ Jink, so that's that.

Maybe I'm mathing this wrong, but it looks to me like Scourges with shardcarbines have a slightly better points to poison ratio than Venoms.

A Venom gets 12 shots for 65 points, which comes to roughly 5.4 points per shot.

Five Scourges get 15 shots for 80 points (or ten scourges get 30 for 160, it's the same ratio), which is roughly 5.3 points per shot.

So, unless I'm missing something, Scourges with shardcarbines are a (slightly) cheaper source of poison than Venoms. (Obviously there are other factors as well; this is just one point of comparison.)

Five Scourges with four splinter cannons would get 19 shots if they move and 27 shots if stationary, which comes to 7.3 points/shot when moving and 5.1 points/shot when stationary, which makes me think more Scourges with shardcarbines is a better investment than giving them splinter cannons.

Calyptra wrote:

A Venom gets 12 shots for 65 points, which comes to roughly 5.4 points per shot.

Five Scourges get 15 shots for 80 points (or ten scourges get 30 for 160, it's the same ratio), which is roughly 5.3 points per shot.

I'd say the extra 18" range is probably worth that 0.1 point per shot, although there are certainly arguments to be made over the resilience of 10 infantry vs 1 vehicle.

Count Adhemar wrote:

...although there are certainly arguments to be made over the resilience of 10 infantry vs 1 vehicle.

Honestly, this is one situation where I will take the vehicle every time... I've never had scourges survive a single turn in range of the enemy.  T3, 4+ Sv models just don't last very long at all.

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...although there are certainly arguments to be made over the resilience of 10 infantry vs 1 vehicle.

Two Vehicles to be precise - at this points.

Edit:
I have a question tho - I was thinking about going for 2 5-man teams with 4 Dark Lances each. I know, I know, snapshot after movements etc. but hear me out. Why should we move them? Most games are played on 48x48 or 72x48 boards, so why not deploy them first turn in some bushes to give them some more delicious cover saves and let them generate Tank and TEQ threat on 36' ? Or even better: from my experience, most DE players roll from Strategic Traits table anyway, so why not shoot for ruin cover bonus or that delicious three units infiltration? That would really make them a threat that way, without the need to move around the board. Have any of you tried that?

mightydoughnut wrote:

I have a question tho - I was thinking about going for 2 5-man teams with 4 Dark Lances each. I know, I know, snapshot after movements etc. but hear me out. Why should we move them? Most games are played on 48x48 or 72x48 boards, so why not deploy them first turn in some bushes to give them some more delicious cover saves and let them generate Tank and TEQ threat on 36' ? Or even better: from my experience, most DE players roll from Strategic Traits table anyway, so why not shoot for ruin cover bonus or that delicious three units infiltration? That would really make them a threat that way, without the need to move around the board. Have any of you tried that?

Because trueborn do the exact same job for cheaper.

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Because trueborn do the exact same job for cheaper.

Umm, no? Trueborn are highly mobile 18'-range tank busters with Blasters, that's a way different role and you rather drop them from Reserves in a Venom, not hide them around in the bushes.

mightydoughnut wrote:

Umm, no? Trueborn are highly mobile 18'-range tank busters with Blasters, that's a way different role and you rather drop them from Reserves in a Venom, not hide them around in the bushes.

Min-sized squad of trueborn can take 2 dark lances for 95 points. That is much cheaper than scourges, and trueborn have the benefit of being able to take a transport as extra protection.

Sure, trueborn are used most frequently with blasters, but that doesn't mean they don't have other uses as well.

I've tried it twice and firs time it was major succes, second time they had casual inpact. Anyways opponent has to dedicate a unit to hunt them specificaly because of theirs long range, which allows for other units to make some difference..

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Min-sized squad of trueborn can take 2 dark lances for 95 points. That is much cheaper than scourges, and trueborn have the benefit of being able to take a transport as extra protection.

I think you kinda missed my point. I'm not looking for cheap mobile shot squad (that's gonna snap shot anyway) because that's the role of blaster trueborn but I am trying to approach Scourges from a bit more different perspective, not as jump infantry, but as a sniper squad that can seriously threaten mosts models in threat range of 36'.

mightydoughnut wrote:

I think you kinda missed my point. I'm not looking for cheap mobile shot squad (that's gonna snap shot anyway) because that's the role of blaster trueborn but I am trying to approach Scourges from a bit more different perspective, not as jump infantry, but as a sniper squad that can seriously threaten mosts models in threat range of 36'.

No, I understood what you are saying...I toyed with the idea myself several months ago.

The realization I came to was that paying a premium for jump troops who (if I'm using them right) never have to jump, seemed wasteful to me. I have found that trueborn, or even just kabalites, fill the "infantry-artillery" role better.

Maybe using scourges that way will work better for you than it did me... Everyone plays a little differently.

I thought of something, but never actually tried it. Scourge are jump unit, so, they are bulky. BUT, still can get in transport. I wonder what a blaster squad would do in a raider.

I know, "then, take blasterborn, in venom, you'll get that for less points". The problem with blasterborn is that when the raider (or venom) die, the squad either die or is too slow to do anything anymore. Scourge have 4+ save, and 6++. And they are jump unit. If I keep them in raider, they will gain the jink save and when the raider die, they'll still mobile.

dumpeal wrote:

I thought of something, but never actually tried it. Scourge are jump unit, so, they are bulky. BUT, still can get in transport.

Jump Infantry cannot board transports unless the transport specifically allows them to (like the SM Stormraven).

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Jump Infantry cannot board transports unless the transport specifically allows them to (like the SM Stormraven).

No, jump infantry is still infantry so they can board transport, there are transports that disallow bulky models, like space marine rhinos.

mightydoughnut wrote:

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Jump Infantry cannot board transports unless the transport specifically allows them to (like the SM Stormraven).

No, jump infantry is still infantry so they can board transport, there are transports that disallow bulky models, like space marine rhinos.

Nope.

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Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.