1500pts Coven

First off, My knowledge of the DE fluff is a bit low, so if anyone has a link to a good article or post about what a army with wracks and heamy's can contain fluff-wise it would be much appreciated.

So far what i've come up with

HQ (+troop)

Heamonculus w\ 1 liquefier-----------------------------210
7 wracks w\ 1 liquefier
Raider w\ NS

Heamonculus w\ 1 liquefier-----------------------------210
7 wracks w\ 1 liquefier
Raider w\ NS

TROOP

8 Wracks w\ 1 liquefier------------------------------------160
Raider w\ NS

8 wyches w\ 8 haywires-----------------------------------166
Raider w\ NS

ELITE

3 Trueborn w\ 2 splintercannons, 1 carbine-------------175
Venom w\ +1 splintercannon, NS

3 Trueborn w\ 2 splintercannons, 1 carbine-------------175
Venom w\ +1 splintercannon, NS

FAST

6 Reavers w\ 2 grav talons-------------------------------152

HEAVY

3 x razorwings w\ 3 NS, 12 necrotoxin-------------------525


total: 4 raiders, 2 venoms, 6 reaverrs, 3 razorwings
(mediocre in the terms of target saturation and redundancy, I think. Then again, I don't know what the norm is)

It has quite some pinnings capability, and a decent core CC force.
I would prefer to remover the wyches, but I see them the only unit now capable of destroying dreadnoughts eq.

Realy big problem seems the lack of AT weapons, all though the local store hasn't really gotten into the mechanized lists.

List is far from perfect I assume, so all help is welkom

Baron Tordeck wrote:

BlckRven wrote:

ELITE

3 Trueborn w\ 2 splintercannons, 1 carbine-------------175
Venom w\ +1 splintercannon, NS

3 Trueborn w\ 2 splintercannons, 1 carbine-------------175
Venom w\ +1 splintercannon, NS

I would make both of these
4 TB w/ 4 Blasters
Venom w/ Extra cannon
173

Saves ya 2 points a unit and makes them vastly superior units.


Okay, I see the potential in that, but doesn't swapping to blasters result in more return fire because of the range is decreased? I was actually planning to stay around 36", thus making (heavy) bolters useless.

FAST

6 Reavers w\ 2 grav talons-------------------------------152

I prefer them to have 2 x Heat lance instead. Their boost ability is fun but in a world of mech there is little chance of it actually happening. This would use those points you saved with the TB units.

Agreed, though not sure if I agree on the heat lances.

HEAVY

3 x razorwings w\ 3 NS, 12 necrotoxin-------------------525
Monsythes are fine as is. No need for the upgrades. I would also make one of these a Ravanger instead. Also FF are better IMO.

Points saved here (only the missles alone could get you a 3rd Haemie w/ LG


Okay, I'll drop the necrotoxin. I prefer the NS, as it makes me immune to returnfire if I keep edgehugging. BTW, I can't really find the one-shot weapon rules in BRB, isn't not sorted under weapontypes or in the index. Because I wondered if you can target 4 seperate units with the 4 missles in 1 turn.

I apologize, I forgot to mention (I thought) that this was only 1495 points, thus switching to heatlances doens't affect anything.

New plan:

HQ (+troop)

Heamonculus w/ 1 liquefier-----------------------------210
7 wracks w/ 1 liquefier
Raider w/ NS

Heamonculus w/ 1 liquefier-----------------------------210
7 wracks w/ 1 liquefier
Raider w/ NS

TROOP

8 Wracks w/ 1 liquefier------------------------------------160
Raider w/ NS

8 Wracks w/ 1 liquefier-------------------------------------160
Raider w/ NS

ELITE

3 Trueborn w/ 2 splintercannons, 1 carbine-------------175
Venom w/ +1 splintercannon, NS

3 Trueborn w/ 2 splintercannons, 1 carbine-------------175
Venom w/ +1 splintercannon, NS

FAST

-

HEAVY

2 x ravager w/ NS, FF, 3 x DL---------------------------375
1 x ravager w/ NS, FF, 3 x Dissie


1465pts

(I just realised what I fool I was, I missed the first HQ slot when I calculated the total.. so I had to trim things down a bit; it was a 1705 pts list)

I would drop all the NS, the cannons and carbines from the TB, and give them Blasters. You already have enough AI with all those wracks and liquifier, your list is really lacking AT though. Also keep the DL on that 3rd Ravager for the same purposes.

Now for a true coven list, here is a list of stuff that is very "coven"

Traditional Coven Units:
Hamies
Grotesques
Wracks
Scourges
Talos
Chronos

Now that doesnt mean you cant take other units, as they can always be on lone from said kabal/wych cult, but Its however you want to work it. My normal all Coven list looks like this (dont have it on me, so bare with me points wise)

Haemie w/Liquifer, WWP
Haemie w/Liquifer, WWP
Urien
7 Grots with Aberation, Liquifer
2 squads of 4 TB with Blasters
2 squads of 3 wracks w/venom
3 squads of 10 wracks w/ 2 liquifers
3 squads of 5 scourges with Heat Lances
2 Taloi
1 Chronos

It has done decent, but Ive moved away from it for now to play in some tournaments Although I wouldnt mind breaking out the old Coven list and give it another whirl

I'm not that fond of WWP lists. I haven't tried them yet, but I really like the idea of an aerial assault.

I also like the wrack models alot. As a bonus I like the way they battle; overpowered flamers and some poisoned blades.. I don't like their lack of fleet....

Which brings me to my next point.
I somehow just can't ignore the turn 1 assault capability of the wyches. I feel it adds so much to the effectiveness, as you can tie up 2 squads in CC, that means a lot less shots from his side.

Venoms will switch over two 4 x blaster as my AI is, indeed, well represented by wracks/wyches. The ravages will all be equiped with 2 DL's for the same reason.

I'll play a game ASAP with 2 x 7 wracks+heamy, 2 x 10 wracks, see how I like it. If I find them to slow I probably drop the fluff and switch to 2 x 7 wracks+heamy, 2 x 8 wyches.

Let me know if you like to see both of those lists worked out.

And thanks for the comments so far

I'm bored so I'll post those concepts anyway.

HQ (+troop)

Heamonculus w/ 1 liquefier, agonizer-----------------------230
7 wracks w/ 1 liquefier
Raider w/ NS

Heamonculus w/ 1 liquefier, agonizer-----------------------230
7 wracks w/ 1 liquefier
Raider w/ NS

TROOP

10 Wracks w/ 2 liquefiers------------------------------------190
Raider w/ NS

10 Wracks w/ 2 liquefiers------------------------------------190
Raider w/ NS

ELITE

3 Trueborn w/ 3 blasters ------------------------------------156
Venom w/ , NS, +1 cannon

3 Trueborn w/ 3 blasters ------------------------------------156
Venom w/ , NS, + 1 cannon


HEAVY

3 x ravager w/ NS, 3 x DL----------------------------------345

total 1497


HQ (+troop)

Heamonculus w/ 1 liquefier, agonizer-----------------------230
7 wracks w/ 1 liquefier
Raider w/ NS

Heamonculus w/ 1 liquefier, agonizer----------------------230
7 wracks w/ 1 liquefier
Raider w/ NS

TROOP

8 wyches w/ 8 haywires, -----------------------------------166
Raider w/ NS

8 wyches w/ 8 haywires, -----------------------------------166
Raider w/ NS

ELITE

3 Trueborn w/ 3 blasters ------------------------------------156
Venom w/ , NS, +1 cannon

3 Trueborn w/ 3 blasters ------------------------------------156
Venom w/ , NS, + 1 cannon


HEAVY

3 x ravager w/ NS, 3 x DL-----------------------------------345

total 1449 thats means 50 points left to do something, if only I knew what.


while making that list, I also came up with this:


HQ (+troop)

Heamonculus w/ 1 liquefier, PW------------------------------220
7 wracks w/ 1 liquefier
Raider w/ NS

Heamonculus w/ 1 liquefier, PW------------------------------220
7 wracks w/ 1 liquefier
Raider w/ NS

TROOP

10 Wracks w/ 2 liquefiers------------------------------------190
Raider w/ NS

10 Wracks w/ 2 liquefiers------------------------------------190
Raider w/ NS

8 wyches w/ 8 haywires, ------------------------------------166
Raider w/ NS

8 wyches w/ 8 haywires, ------------------------------------166
Raider w/ NS


HEAVY

3 x ravager w/ NS, 3 x DL------------------------------------345

total 1497

I would very much appreciate it if could judge which of these list is the best for encountering vanilla space marines. And give your opinion on them.

thnx in advance ^^


p.s.
That was alot of text editing, hope it was worth it

Baron Tordeck wrote:

Your formatting is awesome

Thanks ^^

Baron Tordeck wrote:

Of the 3 I like this one best. But there are a couple changes I would make.

And why would you prefer this one above the third list? Which I like a lot at this moment (in my mind/theory).



Your point on FF makes a lot of sense, I'll probable switch it over on the ravagers. Secondly, I was actually planning on running those Heamies with the wracks into combat, which should improve the CC effectiveness of the unit, also giving the unit a double powerflamer in the shooting phase.
If he would ride with the wyches, he would stay in the raider I guess, making him only half useful as an extra flamer on the raider. As he will be the only unit not diving into CC. Seems quiet a high price for just one paintoken IMO.

My only suggestion is to play what you want, none of your lists (your first included) were a crippled mess. Ultimately if you keep asking and adjusting, your list will begin to look like every other 1500 point list that people comment on.


Looking at what you first proposed and what you're taking away from this post, I could have bet money you would end up with 3 Ravagers as your Heavy Support, 1 if not 2 (or more)units of Blasterborn, your Reavers would be scrapped (regardless of weapons chosen), etc, etc, etc.

Don't look to strongly to the internet for advice if you really just want a tweek here or there to your list or concept. If you want someone else to completely rewrite your list to their preference or style, request away. This is in no way a knock against any one person, its just in our nature to suggest what we believe is best, and in game terms this typically translates to "the most effecient use of points", thus Ravagers over Razorwings, Trueborn (with Blasters of course) over other options like Reavers, etc. etc.

Thanks Fletch for the notification.

Yesterday I played a 2 vs 2 battle, 1500 each. So I tried (as the stubborn man I am) the 3rd list I posted (4 x wracks 2 x wyches 3 ravager) but changed the 2 powerweapons on the heamies to shatterdshart on 1, and a venom blade on the other.

I directly noticed some things:

- 6 raiders on the battlefield looks awesome, specially when combined with 3 ravagers (though I proxied these, as I rather test my list before I buy the stuff)

- the look on someone's face when you pull of an effective Charge range of 27" on both wych squads is just priceless.

- ordnance denial through shaken and stunned is pretty damn handy.

- I find that the AT that this list brings is sufficient as far as I could test it. Yesterday was also the first times in months I saw the other players lists. None of the lists are rhino/razorback spams, so I should be fine.

I really like the DE-army and my list so far.