New Power from Pain Mechanic

Inspired by a fan codex post from user Fueldrop...I wanted to expand on his idea, steal some terms and explore a new direction

To keep at bay the decay of their souls into the warp, Dark Eldar feed on the tortured souls of others, the greater the agony and more profuse the death the better.  

As a battle gets underway the death toll of both Eldar and the enemy provides Power from Pain!

OK so the 2 tables used by normal Dark Eldar and Coven Eldar still stay...reflecting the heightened tensions of battle and the agonies of the wounded and dying.  This ambient energy makes the Dark Kin increasingly more powerful to the point of all being hyper aggressive and drunk on torment.

However.  For those Dark Eldar who press the assault and overwhelm their foe, there are two new aspects to the Power from Pain.  The first is called a Feast of Fear, where the terror and panic of combatants and victims energises the Eldar to greater heights.  The second is the Lure of Blood, where the agonies of injury and death, and the spilling of gore drives the Eldar into a frenzied insanity.

There will be a new deck of Pain cards for each Dark Eldar army.  Players will earn a random card (shuffled and face down) each time a Feast of Fear or Lure of Blood is performed

Feast of Fear - Any unit fails a fear, morale or pinning check.  Earn 1 card

Lure of Blood - Any non vehicle unit is completely destroyed.  Earn 1 card

1 Card can be played per turn number (1 in turn 1, 2 in turn 2 etc)

Each card will offer a benefit/buff which lasts for the turn or for a roll as stated.  Each card can be used on any Dark Eldar with the PfP rule, but some will offer a special bonus if used by a certain unit or in a certain situation.  

Sample cards

Savage Assault - Play this card in the Assault phase on any unit that has successfully engaged in CC.  The unit has the hammer of Wrath rule.  SPECIAL - If played on Wyches/Brides/Succubus then their gleeful charge has the HoW rule at AP 5

Wanton Carnage - Play this card in the Assault phase on any unit in combat.  Each model in the unit has an extra attack for that round of combat only.  SPECIAL - If played on Grotesques then they add 1 to any combat resolution to determine the winner

Psychic Null - Play this card in the enemy Psychic Phase to gain the Adamantium Will rule for any deny the witch rolls that turn only

Stuff of Nightmares - Play this card in the Assault Phase on any unit.  That unit has +1 to their Feel no Pain for the turn.  SPECIAL - If played on any Coven unit, then in addition they gain the Fear and Fearless special rule

Terrify - Play this card in any phase on one enemy unit to remove their Fearless or ATSKNF rule for the turn

Soul Drinker - Play this card in the Assault Phase on any unit. The unit gains a +1 FnP in they kill at least 1 non vehicle model that round, as they drink the departing soul. SPECIAL - If the victim is a Craftworld or Exodite Eldar then their Spirit Stone is smashed or swallowed for extra taste. The unit gains a +2 to FnP instead

Only one card may be played on a unit per turn, unless within 12" of a Haemonculus or Cronos in which case it can be 2.  3 If Urien is there in 12".  Each Haemonculus starts the game with 1 card.


Please share your thoughts

Thanks

I like it. I was actually considering doing something kinda similar for my fan codex, either in addition to or instead of having a scaling: Pain tokens would be a resource to be gathered and expended, with expended pain tokens giving specific units a buff for the rest of the turn. Each buff would be drawn from a relevant table.

I like your way, but having another random element (drawing the right card for the job) to an army that relies very heavily on strategy sounds like it may be a less than optimal choice, particularly considering we already have random drugs which may make us killing machines or be virtually useless.

Not sure that I'm keen to add a random card draw mechanic to the game.

I don't mind the idea though, perhaps if each boon had a target number, and each act gave you a die toward a dice pool (of PAIN!!1!)? Then spend those dice in any combination to activate boons for given units.

Although if sufficiently evolved it should probably replace the current version (you know, the one where you as a player receive the power of learning to win against the odds due to the pain inflicted by the Codex).

No cards.

OK fair points.  I thought cards are easier to manage than points/tokens, and I like the idea of a low admin system.

How about this instead.

Keep the current 2 tables tracking turn number BUT we add new levels above 6 with extra bonuses at each.

Each unit will then be able to push themselves higher in the table than the turn number based on specific actions.  This could be indicated with either a D10 next to the unit, or coloured gems/counters next to the unit equal to their boost.  They would not 'spend' the tokens, they simply count themselves higher on the chart relative to the turn.  There is however a limit to the additional tokens a unit may have...it could be 2, but if a Haemonculus or Cronos is within 12" then it could be 3.  If Urien is Warlord then it would be 3/4

Feast of Fear - 1 Token is generated each time a unit fails a fear, morale or pinning test caused by a Coven unit (Haemonculus/Wrack/Grotesque) in any phase. The token will be taken by the unit causing the test OR by any Dark Eldar unit within 6" of any Cronos

Lure of Blood - 1 Token is generated each time a non-vehicle unit is completely destroyed in any phase. The token will be taken by the unit that did the killing OR by any Dark Eldar unit within 6" of any Cronos.

The effect is that Coven units frightening the enemy, or units being killed generate an intensity of pain and suffering benefitting aggressor units OR those near a Cronos...a great new bonus for taking the Cronos

So what do the tables look like?

Normal Dark Eldar

Turn 1 - Nothing
Turn 2 - FNP 6
Turn 3 - FNP 5
Turn 4 - Furious Charge
Turn 5 - Fearless
Turn 6 - Rage
Turn 7 - Adamantium Will
Turn 8 - Fear
Turn 9 - Hatred
Turn 10 - Eternal Warrior

Coven Units

Normal Dark Eldar

Turn 1 - Nothing
Turn 2 - Fearless
Turn 3 - Fear
Turn 4 - It Will not DIe
Turn 5 - Zealot
Turn 6 - Eternal Warrior
Turn 7 - Adamantium Will
Turn 8 - Furious Charge
Turn 9 - Hammer of Wrath
Turn 10 - Rage

I imagine some will criticise the fact that they still don't benefit shooty units too much...I don't think they should

I like that idea better. But why so complicated? The blood tithe rule is much easier and very cool to use.

We feast on pain and fear, right?
Why not generating one fear point for every time a unit fails a morale test. Give us weaponry like Phantasm launcher to force additional tests to generate additional fear points. And five Coven better gear for this usage. The Cronos could generate one point whenever it kills something.

Why not use both? Have both a fear table and a pain table, which give separate benefits when triggered. For example...

Power From Pain (units killed for either player):
0: Nothing
1-2. +1 to FNP rolls
3-4. +2 to FNP rolls
5-6. Furious Charge
7-8. Rage
9-10. Hammer of Wrath
11-12. +1 to WS and BS
13+. Preferred Enemy

Power From Fear (every time an enemy unit fails a morale test):
0: Nothing
1. Fearless
2. Fear
3. It Will Not Die
4. Zealot
5. Eternal Warrior
6. Adamantium Will
7. Moral checks are made at +1d3, and ignore Fearless/ATSKNF

Haemonculi give a bonus to these tables, either army wide or to specific units. Equipment should boost the tables, and get around Fearless and ATSKNF (on a limited basis). Cronos can also boost using the soul syphon.

I also feel like special 1/game options should be available if a certain level is met; for example, 1/game gain a +1 bonus to Deny the Witch, 1/game gain +1 attack to all charging units, 1/game treat the charge distance as 6 + d6", etc.

The bonuses are open to interpretation, as always.

I like @The PayneTrayn's suggestion but I'd suggest making it a Power from Pain/Fear score instead if being a straight unit kill tally.

Power from Pain.

The following acts would increase your Power from Pain score:

• A unit on the battlefield is destroyed: +1pt
  
• If you score first blood +1pt
  
• If you kill a full strength unit in a single round +1pt
  
• If you kill 3 or more units in a single turn +1pt
  
• If you have any number of Haemonculai on the table at the beginning of your turn +1pt
  
• If you have any number of Cronos on the table at the start of your turn +1pt
  
• If a unit/formation of pain engines destroys a unit +1pt
  

Note that the first and last entries work universally so if two Dark Eldar players face off they both generate a point each time a unit dies and each time a unit of pain engines kills something. Everything else they have to generate themselves.

The rewards are as follows:

4pts: FnP 6+
8pts: FnP 5+
12pts: Furious Charge
16pts: Preferred Enemy
20pts: Rage
25pts: Roll once on the Combat Drugs table. This result stacks with any drug rolls made by Wyches at the start of the game.
30pts: Roll a second time on the Combat Drugs table. This second roll cannot stack with the previous PfP roll (reroll in this case) but it can stack with drug rolls made by wyches at the start of the game.

The idea of having it work this way is your rewarded for certain styles of play. If you're aggressive and go for kills rather than spreading around your damage you'll progress faster and further through PfP. You're encouraged to sacrifice chaff or wounded units to get the extra points. Or you force your opponent to really consider finishing you off to delay your rise through the table. DE players are encouraged to be both aggressive and reckless whilst opponents are forced to play more conservatively or just hope they can table you before you get too strong. There'll be a critical mass of number of units and level of PfP that many armies will struggle to stop. But a badly mauled DE army, even one that is seemingly crippled in the very early game can suddenly fight back with much sharper teeth. Do you really want to alpha strike into the DE lines, knocking out several of their units when you know they have a bunch of deep striking units ready to pounce with added PfP right after?

You're rewarded for having Haemoculai and Pain Engines on the table particularly the Cronos. You want the pain engines killing stuff but you don't necessarily want your Haemonculai in harms way. The Haemonculus still buffs the unit he's in (or the entire army if he has that ability) by increasing their PfP by one step further than it is whilst passively generating a point per turn to slowly climb the ladder. Taking a Dark Artisan squad now forces you to consider the potential loss of your Haemonculus and Cronos in combat as you'd lose those passive points. You also have to consider if deep striking them is worth it to lose out on the passive PfP points generation. Redundant units of both help alleviate this.

TL:DR Points generated PfP encourage you to play fast and loose (the Dark Eldar way) and make your opponent think about trying to take you out too soon. It might make for a more tactical game and stop you being blown off the table by turn 3.


Power from Fear.

The following grant PfF points:

• If a unit fails a morale check caused by taking casualties +1pt
  
• If a unit fails a fear test +1pt
  
• If a vehicle explodes +1pt
  
• If a unit is killed by a unit/formation of Pain Engines +1pt
  
• If you scored first blood +1pt
  
• For each unit you wound in a turn with a Phantasm or Torment Grenade Launcher +1pt
  
• If a character of yours slays an enemy character in combat during a challenge +1pt
  
• If you have any number of Haemonculus on the table at the start of your turn +1pt
  
• If you have any number of Cronos on the table at the start of your turn +1pt
  

The first 4 entries grant PfF pts to both sides in the event of DE vs DE battles. Vehicles exploding grant fear points because it's assumed the crew will clamber to safety from merely wrecked vehicles whilst exploding vehicles will trap them in a burning hell. Also need a way of leveraging PfF vs mech armies that might be low on leadership toting units.

The rewards are as follows:

4pts: +1 Leadership
8pts: Adamantium Will
12pts: Stubborn
16pts: Fearless
20pts: Fear
25pts+: Hatred


Will need to work an alternate form for the covern PfP table I don't think it will work to split that into two separate tables, there aren't enough appropriate bonus' to fill them with. Might be that an alternative to the Power from Pain/Fear mechanic might be needed fr coven units. It's late and Ive gone on long enough here so I'm leaving it there for now!

Thanks Repliers!

CptMetal, I really wanted something unique and different to Khorne, though I agree that is fun!
PayneTrayn and Demantiae, I like where this has evolved...particularly Demantiae, the list of specific events and continued catalysts of the Cronos/Haemonculus generating points to that critical mass.

I think for some fun and crazy strategies there should be some bonus points too for the following

A Helliarch Instant Deaths a character with the Stunclaw +1 pt
A full raider with Splinter Racks unloads 20+ shots into a single model +1pt
A unit of Incubi butchers a unit twice their size with no attacks returned +1pt
An archon reaches strength 8 through soul hunting in their Soultrap +1pt
A Succubus gets Slay the Warlord AND dies in the same round +1pt
10 models+ removed from Liquifier hits +1pt

daveyo wrote:

I think for some fun and crazy strategies there should be some bonus points too for the following

A Helliarch Instant Deaths a character with the Stunclaw  +1 pt
A full raider with Splinter Racks unloads 20+ shots into a single model  +1pt
A unit of Incubi butchers a unit twice their size with no attacks returned +1pt
An archon reaches strength 8 through soul hunting in their Soultrap +1pt
A Succubus gets Slay the Warlord AND dies in the same round +1pt
10 models+ removed from Liquifier hits +1pt

I was thinking of all the scenarios that could lend to giving you those points but many of them are no more horrific than what's happening in a battle anyway. Incubi slaughtering a large squad is no more brutal than Death Guard doing the same. And melting with liquifiers is no more gruesome than being melted with plasma cannons. You have to limit the generation to what technology/actions really make the DE pain train work - so Haemonculi and their twisted "techology", pain engines and their life siphoning and killing first and or through individual combat where the characters can really stick the knife in their enemies and drag them back barely alive for worse to come. Although I made up the figures off the top of my head I'm thinking that progression through the tables should work sort of the same it does nw (with fearless kicking in turn 5, furious charge turn 4 etc but a brutal and skilled DE player could reach them earlier. As could a reckless and foolish one who loses too many units too early. The same mechanic works to push the first player to victory whilst giving the second a fighting chance. Reaching the higher levels too soon will be a major unbalancing factor of this system. As will not hitting them fast enough.

Spoilsport!

Why not combine everything and do power from DRUGS! hehe only joking.. sorta.

As CptMetal stated the Blood Tithe mechanic is great. Or hell even an acts of faith type mechanic, call it acts of pain or whatever.

Thing is either way it needs to be simple. Some of the ideas above are cool but they could become pretty tedious in-game especially with multiple charts going on. Blood Tithe for example has one chart to reference and one thing to remember.. stuff dies. It has a really relentless grindy khornate feel to it like a built in engine not psychically fueled. Ours should be similar in simple function but more offensively focused, IMO anyway. Just some thoughts.

okay i dont like the randomness of it but the effects are cool. how about pfp is like orders for AM/IG
we have 6-12 cards for effects. pass a leadership test and the unit can perform something special

Here is what me a friend did for a game. We combined last with this ed rules. The difference is the pain tokens that you gather can be spent for +1 turn on that unit only for one turn. Or once you have feel no pain to re-roll, a failed save. It was interesting and fun. Pain tokens were gained the exact same way as last edition, Heami came with one, and a unit got one for killing a unit.

Brom wrote:

Thing is either way it needs to be simple. Some of the ideas above are cool but they could become pretty tedious in-game especially with multiple charts going on. Blood Tithe for example has one chart to reference and one thing to remember.. stuff dies.

This is the catch.

Let's take a step back.

The Power from Pain mechanic has multiple aims, and meeting all of them satisfactorily is a lot easier said than done. The first step in achieving a newer, more awesome Power from Pain is probably agreeing on the things it should ideally do, and determining the priority with which the different objectives are addressed.

Once we have strictly defined the critical success criteria, we could then model some different systems and see which come closer to meeting those criteria. Solutions to shortfalls may become easier to perceive when the shortfall is explicit.

I'll make a start To me, these are the design goals of an ideal Power from Pain (in the order I think of them):

- Simple. Easy to use and understand, both for the casual Dark Eldar player and for his opponent.

- Reflective. They should reflect elements of the background that portray the Dark Eldar as feeding on pain, and using pain to become stronger. An outstanding success in this area may result in a mechanic that encourages the player to maximise pain beyond what might be immediately ideal tactically, mirroring the Dark Kin's lust for pain at the expense of reason.

- Interactive. Ideally the mechanic should reward players for taking action, or feature a trade-off requiring tactical choice. The lack of interactivity of the current PfP mechanic has been dubbed by some on this board the 'Power from Filling in Tax Returns' system. Perhaps related to the 'Reflective' criterion.

- Early/Late balance. Dark Eldar, due to their very fragile nature, can struggle to get back into a game after severe early setbacks. A mechanic that allows Dark Eldar to become stronger as the game progresses helps to alleviate this, keeping games interesting for longer. This is something done well by the current PfP mechanic, albeit at the cost of Interactivity and some Reflectivity! Damn, game design is hard.

- Power. The Dark Eldar should be a more potent army with the mechanic than they would be without it, however they should not be more powerful than the other 7ed codicies.

That's 5 design objectives, many of which oppose each other. Have I captured the requirements for this rule correctly, or have I missed some? Tell me what you think, and once we have a consensus on what the critical success factors are, we can discuss the priority of addressing each.

The one thing I would add into the design criteria is that it would ideally be unique to the DE and different to all other factions. Creating a rule to give us a free Venom when angry, or boosting FNP is lazy.

I think under your reflective point there is something noteworthy 'encourages the player to maximise pain beyond what might be immediately ideal tactically, mirroring the Dark Kin's lust for pain at the expense of reason'

I am now thinking In any game regardless of objectives, the DE would have their own overriding goal of causing fear, pain and mayhem and taking prisoners. The new mechanic should reward this and would prove an interesting dilemma for the player

Creeping Darkness wrote:

The Power from Pain mechanic has multiple aims, and meeting all of them satisfactorily is a lot easier said than done. The first step in achieving a newer, more awesome Power from Pain is probably agreeing on the things it should ideally do, and determining the priority with which the different objectives are addressed.

This is very true. You sir are great at pointing out what we need from our rules but we need some actual rule suggestions! Get on it pronto! :-)

Creeping Darkness wrote:

- Power. The Dark Eldar should be a more potent army with the mechanic than they would be without it, however they should not be more powerful than the other 7ed codicies.

Don't think there's much chance of that! We're talking of revamping a codex mechanic for a codex that's still broken.

A mechanic does indeed need to be simple. Maybe the way to go is to combine the current and old mechanics? You get a global pain token when you kill something. Each Haemonculus (and maybe unit of pain engines?) begins with a free token. You can spend a token once to get an effect. You can spend upto 1 token per turn to increase your progression along a global PfP table, in fact the same table we have already (6++ FnP, 5++FnP, Furious Charge etc etc). This then applies to all models with the PfP rule, Kabalite or Coven. But you can also spend your tokens to boost a single unit until the beginning of your next turn.

Thinking about balance the best way to go about boosting is to use a random roll. A d6 table allows for some potentially strong things without it breaking the game, because you don't always get what you need or want (like combat drugs). It also stops you completely tailoring your strategy to a single specific boost. Using the combat drugs table as a guide and understanding that these tokens are hard to come by and valuable you have to take any leadership boosts out of the equation. Those are ok in the early game but you want to move up to fearless asap. Pain boosted units should become fearless when boosted because the psychic energies of the tortured are fuelling them to blood rage. I think they should also be considered Eternal Warriors because like the fabled berserkers their rage makes them tough to kill. This might make it favourable to throw your Archons into combat against scary things because they won't insta die when pain fuelled, though the price of this is continued expenditure of pain tokens.

So you get Fearless (useful early game and encourages daring early play) and Eternal Warrior (that means you can use your combat HQ's for something more useful). You then get to roll on a simple table:

D6
1: +1 S
2: +1 T
3: +1 WS
4: +2 A
5: Reroll all failed to wound rolls
6: +3" on run rolls & Crusader

This makes a boosted unit better in combat (they should all be combat related because I see being boosted as akin to being berserk or drunk on pain for a turn) but not to a game breaking degree. To get that +1 S that might let you crush a few more Speshul Marine heads you needed have killed an entire unit of them first.

Spending 1 per turn to increase your global level of PfP offers some interesting options. If you get first turn you can forgo spending this and boost a unit to try and get first blood quickly (if you think you can achieve it), and you suffer no downside over the current system (if you get that kill). If you go second then you want to spend your first (probably free) token on the global boost which will give you the same bonus that you get in the current system. Or you can forgo that (and probably not reach the highest level of global PfP) and boost a unit to secure an early kill you really need. Or you can ignore the global boosts and just focus on boosting a couple units (in a deathstar list).

Demantiae wrote:

This is very true. You sir are great at pointing out what we need from our rules but we need some actual rule suggestions! Get on it pronto! :-)

Well, if you insist, but I wanted to make sure we were all pulling in approximately the same direction first.

I'll share my ideas, and then perhaps we can throw all of our ideas into a pool and rate them or their components against our criteria, and stitch the best bits into a new mechanic.


Power from Pain
Reflecting the way the Dark Kin thrive on the pain of others and sometimes even themselves, units with the Power from Pain rule may accumulate pain tokens throughout the game. The effects of a pain token, described below, are available at the completion of the current action or initiative step after the token has been acquired, and last until the token is removed.

Earning Pain tokens
There are four ways to earn pain tokens, described below. Some units also include special rules providing additional cases where pain tokens may be earned, described in that units dataslate.

A - Death, my meat
When an enemy has one or more models removed as casualties, each friendly unit with the Power from Pain rule within 6" of one or more of the casualties before they are removed immediately receives a single pain token. This may only be applied once per enemy unit per phase. Successive casualties from the same unit in the same phase do not trigger further pain tokens, unless the unit is wiped out (in which case see C).

B - Terror, my wine
When an enemy unit fails a Morale check, each friendly unit with the Power from Pain rule within 12" of the enemy before they flee immediately receive one pain token. Units within 6" of the unit instead receive two pain tokens.

C - A feast of pain
When an enemy unit is wiped out completely, each friendly unit with the Power from Pain rule within 18" immediately receives a pain token. Units within 12" receive 2 pain tokens instead, and units within 6" receive 3 pain tokens instead.

D - Comedy is when you die
When a friendly unit is completely wiped out, all friendly units within 6" immediately receive a pain token.

Benefits from Pain tokens
Each unit with the Power from Pain special rule receives a benefit based on the number of pain tokens it currently has. Benefits are cumulative, so a unit with three pain tokens also gains the benefits from having one and two pain tokens.

1: Feel no Pain
2: Fearless
3: +1 S
4: +1 A
5: +1 WS & +1 I

More than 5 pain tokens do not have any effect, but are still recorded as they may allow a unit to enjoy the benefits of the pain for longer.

Removing Pain tokens
The kick from pain is temporary, and Dark Eldar are constantly driven to find more pain.

At the start of each friendly turn, remove one pain token from each friendly unit.

Sharing the Pain
If an independent character leaves a unit that has one or more pain tokens, the character must be assigned with either one or none of the unit's pain tokens, at the owning player's choice. Unit or characters with the Brotherhood of Pain special rule may not be left with no pain tokens as a result of this process. This may cause the unit and character to be inseparable.

#For Haemonculi and Coven Units
Brotherhood of Pain
Units with this special rule (such as Haemonculi, Wracks and Grotesques) automatically generate one pain token for their unit at the start of each turn, after the pain token removal step. If a character with this rule joins a unit with this rule, each generate one pain token for a combined total of two generated pain tokens.

#For the Cronos
When a Cronos causes unsaved wounds, contributes to an enemy unit failing a morale check, or wipes out a unit, the distance within which pain tokens are assigned doubles.

For example, if a Cronos satisfies the 'Death, my meat' condition, then all friendly units with the Power from Pain rule within 12" receive a pain token, rather than within 6". If a Cronos satisfies the 'Terror, my Wine' condition then units within 12" receive two pain tokens, and units within 24" receive one pain token.

Removing tokens per turn is good fuelling the need for constant aggression...and the epicentres of pain are great, benefitting those closest and most integral. I think the order of bonuses feels good though I think the WS and I at 5 doesn't fit. Maybe Rage or Hatred. And of course coven need a note. Perhaps just boosting the fnp at 1 to 4+.
The only thing I don't like at all is the book keeping. I know there is a method out there that involves no tracking of points and no need to refer to tables hence my initial post with cards not points.

So you need cards instead of points. I'd rather have a power from Pain table on which every unit gets one point for the turn number and the additional points earned can be spend to push them further temporarily. So I only put a dice next to the unit. Cards are random and much bigger then dices.

Fair point