Regarding the Freakshow.

Some of you may be familiar with my wildly popular (or maybe mildly popular...) Freakshow series. If not, you can always check it out in the stickied link at the top of the tactics sub forum!

I'd like to ask a question to people who've actually tried Freakshow lists: how have they been received by your opponents? I've recently run into some trouble with this locally, and I'm curious if other people are having the same experience.

As I do run my "Freakshow" mainly with Eldar (only allied CAD for Succubus with Armor, FA Raider and maybe a Scalpel Squadron) and Harlequins, people have no issues as they are glad I'm not bringing Wraithknights or WWP Scytheguard.

In my local meta, sperce marehns are about 70% leaders.
Freakshow tactics based on LD debuffs will only work sometimes, so I shy away from those tactics as it makes me sad

Got no issues with power armor boys.
Using Farseers/Hemlocks for shriek and pile a -7Ld on priotity targets, if I happen to have Warlocks it can get to -10.

Thing is it is an extreme example of an one trick pony. Once people have identified what makes this list somewhat strong, they dedicate firepower and then it tends to fall apart.

@Jimsolo, what problems are you having exactly? I haven't played any freakshow lists myself yet since I don't have the models required. But when discussing the concept with the people I play with, the only thing they seemed dubious about was the stacking of freakish spectacle. Although it is clearly RAW as far as I am concerned.

I'll be trying a lite version of this soon with cast of players and/or heroes path added to my existing DE/coven army.

I don't think it has the warp charge count to really get it done, but I'm not interested right now in buying a bunch of Eldar models to make it work.

I'm really interested to find out if partial dedication to this idea can fill a niche in my army for killing tough to address stuff, or if you really need to go whole hog to make it worthwhile.

I generally encounter surprise, even if I've explained the concept prior to the game. I did have one game against Necrons where the other guy got a bit upset after I wiped out his nigh-on unkillable unit with Terrify (failed their morale test, broke, got charged in the assault phase, failed to regroup and were wiped out) but other than that generally no issues.

I've found that generally. I often have to explain all of the different pieces of my army. And with a wombo-combo like this, I feel like the explaining will be the norm whenever you face new players.

One of our local organizers asked me a while back to stop running them, so I did.

Then Tuesday he starts telling another player (who I was playing) to watch out for me and my lists, that they were filled with "leadership bulls--t you can't defend against."  When I responded that I hadn't run Freakshow-heavy lists in months, and asked where the aggression was coming from, he told me he'd "just been thinking about it, and it made him angrier and angrier."  He claimed the "leadership s--t was completely impossible to defend against," then accused me of "just combining detachments to break the game."

One other guy agreed with him (although not as vehemently) claiming they "make you feel helpless."

When I responded that this was my way of making my codex competitive, and that the DE codex was pretty underwhelming, the primary instigator scoffed as if that were the stupidest thing he'd ever heard.  I then had my win record thrown in my face by a third player, who also cited my taking first in our last competitive event as evidence that our codex was just fine.

Normally I'd just blow them off and continue on my way, but I thought I'd pause to weigh whether or not there's any merit to their accusations.  (Specifically, the primary guy, who we'll call Carl.)  The other two I've never really had a problem with. I'm inclined to dismiss Carl's arguments out-of-hand (he's pretty much always got something wacky he's going on about), but the fact that people even made noises in the direction of support of him made me think I might want to consider it.

I guess it depends. Are these people who prefer a more narrative style of play, light lists, and general take-it-easyness? Do they have "the conversation" before games? Or would they happily plop down 3 riptides and 3 flyrants while complaining about your list?

If the former, then you just a narrative or more friendly-oriented meta. If the latter, then it sounds like some of your local players are prototypical that guys. I feel very lucky that in northern CA, if you indicated you wanted a more competitive game, many people would happily throw down and help you test and break your list.

My guess is that you are hamstrung by local "meta" which is more accurately stated as local stupidity/intolerance.

Let me know if you ever end up on the left coast, I'd love to play against you.

Ahhhh. Gotcha. Yeah it's pretty hard to combat. Really they'd have to take out your key things. Specifically the psykers or high Ld bebuffs
Not impossible, it sounds like you've got a collection of sensitive folk around you,mate

Just wait until you add a Slaanesh Allied Detachment with a Doomstone and start assassinating "wolfstars". The tear drop tattoos begin to build up.

If the freakshow was considered competitive you would see it a lot more in tournaments. It has serious weakness', but can be good in certain situations. But a lot of points are invested in making it work well. If people are complaining about a freak show then they really haven't waged war against anything truly competitive.

As a side not I am starting to give the freakshow a try and will be giving it a good test run over the next couple of months.

I also would like to know what kind of lists your enemies are bringing @Jimsolo

I've only tried it in small doses. One of my regular opponents is a Grey Knight player and unless I'm running a couple of Farseer it is difficult to match how many dicee he can use to deny with. Also, rolling to hit with psychic scream makes the tactic less reliable. Still, I like the freakshow and do not think it is game breaking.

I would love to play in an environment where Freakshow was "broken". That sounds like paradise!

Lol, until you get called 'TFG' for bringing Venomspam.

Oh yes, more than one Reaver squad is also too competitive, and the Fortress of Redemption is also broken. Forgot those two.

What is fortress of redemption?

It's a large structure that can house a ton of units at once, That I firmly believe ought to be webway portalable but the community at large disagrees on

I don't even Portal it. I just buy it with the Void Shields, then start my bikes, hellions, and skimmers out on top of the battlements.

(Yes, I took a list with a fully loaded Fortress of Redemption and three units of Hellions...and was told it was too cheesy.)

Hellions? Cheesy? Who do you play against?

I mean to be fair hellions ARE cheesy. As soon as you know how to deal with that flock you should NEVER lose to Jimsolo EVER again provided he's wasting that kind of pointage.

To answer Jim's original question, the Freakshow can be devastating against certain armies. From my own experience using it, xeno armies are a little more vulnerable to it than SM armies, due to the fact that the Archangel doesn't work on units with ATSKNF. That's what my opponents complained about the most, the Archangel, since it can destroy or almost destroy multiple units if you can use it in conjunction with the AoM, Mask of Secrets, Terrify, Hemlock Wraith Fighter, and Freakish Spectacle. Tricky to pull off and it costs a lot of points, but when it works it can cripple an opposing army in one turn.

Having said that, it is by no means as absurd as the type of lists that do well at top tournaments these days. There are FAR more broken and powerful things out there than the Freakshow. It can be good, but it is highly situational.

I've had the pleasure of taking my first steps toward a Freakshow only two weeks ago with a Heroes Path against my friends Eldar, and then a full fledged Ravenwing combo after he conceded with his Eldar in turn 2. (large unit of Scatbikes turbo-boosting up to claim an objective next to my Grot-filled Raider and a Solitaire, outflanking shrieking Shadowseer and Death Jester coming in from the back end).

Needless to say I got destroyed by the Ravenwing which are just silly againt your average Dark Eldar list with all that Overwatch from the Darkshroud formation, Interceptor and free jink. But I still wiped out most of his command squad with one Shriek. I called me names, but only in a good natured way

So no, I don't think the Freakshow is broken or anything like it. In fact it'll be a godsend vs Necrons in our P250 campaign where so far I have lost every game against them. Just wait until I finish painting my Dark Artisan, Grotesquerie and the Heroes Path!