Codex tweaks you'd like to see

I wouldn't tweak FNP or saves in anyway. DE have just lost the hammer part of 'glass hammer'. More like a 'glass wiffle bat'. It stings but can't knock anything out.

1. Combat Drugs - For the love of god, make them player choice, even if we have to pay an extra point per model for a couple of them. Haemonculi create uber monsters, surely they've figured out which drugs make people do what and aren't just sitting around ****ing with the other DE, making them play combat drug roulette.

2. Wyches -
-Give them another base attack. 2 base attacks for a unit that does nothing but fight, all the time , should be a given. They should already have the Hekatrix/Bloodbride statline as the base and go up from there.
-More options to special weapons, poisoned cc weapons etc. as mentioned by everyone would be nice, but leave them as troops regardless. Why does adding toys make something elite?
-Like the old dex, give them the option to take up to 2 shredders or blasters, and haywire grenades again.

3. Wracks -
-Need the option to be made a troop again via Haemonculus. DE don't have enough troop options imo.
4. Flyer points reduction and vector dancer.
5. Formations - yadda yadda
6. WWP - allowed to assault out of it or at minimum, something like Fleet units can assault out of it. Minimum 2 per army maybe if you did that.
7. Again, 12" movement w/ disembark and assault via old dex.
8. Again, Dissintegrator needs to be a Hvy 1 Blast S7 AP2 or assault 3 again via 3rd-5th edition. Keep it simple and make the range the same though.
9. Again, as mentioned, the Archon/Succubus needs a jet-bike option.
10. The Duke!!
11. The Archon should have the choice of everything. Ghostplate, grenades, jet-bike, drugs, corvette, whatever. He's the boss, and the boss gets what the boss wants.
12. Incubi - grenades...
13. Shredder - blast weapon
14. Electrocorrosive whip, should be allowed for more than just 1 model. Seriously?
15. Agoniser, 20 points.
16. Shadowfield, 25 points.


Complete Wish listing:
1. I think we need a flyer/transport, ala Necrons. That is speed with pinpoint troop delivery right there.

2. Beastmasters -
-I liked the last version of beastmasters before they were nerfed.... however, I think it makes more sense to include 'beasts' as versions of existing units from other codexes. Fluff-wise yes, they go into the warp, but why do they come out with things that aren't seen in any other codex that comes out of the warp? Daemons on a leash anyone, khorne hounds, some tyranids via the world that was sucked in just so they could harvest tyranids for sport? Slightly modified statline, or even a blanket list of other units, with generic stat buffs/de-buffs like LD dropped to 4, melee weapons only, no psychic powers, give them rampage, or something. That would be fluffy, cool, and adds tons of variation and flexibility depending on what you can use. It also sells.

I'd like to see wyches be abit more ass kicking and I want the old rules back for the wych weapons you know when you could reroll hit and wound with razorflails and got D6 extra attacks with hydra gauntlets.

I'd like to see DE get back some of their personality. We've lost so many rules and recieved so many unnecessary nerfs that most of our units have sod-all resemblance to their fluff.

As an example, let's examine the Archon.

First off, he's supposed to be a tactical genius. So, what tactical abilities does he bring? None. Autarchs at least let you manipulate reserve rolls (in addition to being better in virtually every other way, but I digress), Archons do nothing whatsoever. No reserve manipulation. No automatic Night Fighting (because broad daylight is obviously as good a time for a DE raid as any other). No buffs even for his own unit. Nothing.

Next, an Archon supposedly has access to the 'deadliest technoarcana'. Excuse me whilst I update my dictionary, since 'deadliest' has apparently been redefined to mean 'not remotely deadly'. Seriously, what do you think of when you think 'deadly'? Archons apparently think '4 different S3 AP3 weapons'. So, nothing that can pierce 2+ saves and nothing that can scratch the rear end of a rhino. But, maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way. After all, most Archons are really, really old, right? So, maybe they're all using weapons that were fantastic back when they were nippers. Presumably, what they call splinter pistols are actually flintlocks...

If you actually feed an Archon's rules back into his fluff, not a single one would still be breathing and Commorragh would be run by either Reaver Champions or Aberrations.

Also, let's not forget the other stuff that's been beaten senseless by a bat made of frozen dullness:
- Clone Field (Goodbye fluff, hello boring, overpriced crap.)
- Mindphase Gauntlet (Kudos, GW - you've managed to make this the least fluffy and the least useful weapon in the entire game.)
- Electrocorrosive Whip (Oh look, more concussive. Also, I'm glad to see we have access to the worst poison in the entire game. Why am I playing this army again?)
- Venom Blades (Why did this need to double in cost? More importantly, why were they removed from virtually every bloody model?)
- Soul Trap (Good lord, this item could warrant a whole essay. Why do only sergeants and characters have souls? Why does killing a character in 3 blows with an Agoniser net me 3 souls, but one-shotting him with the Huskblade nets me only 1? Why can souls only be collected in challenges? Why, when souls are such a pain to collect, do they net such a pitiful and boring reward?)
- Aerial Assault (This was a brilliantly simple rule that perfectly fit the DE theme, along with the fluff of the model. And it was removed. I think that says it all.)

Hell, virtually nothing in the DE book has a unique rule. In fact, special characters notwithstanding, there are a grand total of 4 unique special rules in the unit entries. 3 of those are 'dodge'.

And, the only army-wide rules we get are Night Vision and Power from Pain. The former is at least flavourful, but still just a shadow of its former usefulness since a) Night Fighting has been getting steadily worse since 5th (these days, most armies barely even notice the difference) and b) we apparently conduct 50% of our raids in daylight for no adequately explored reason.

With regard to Power from Pain, the current rules have all the excitement of filling in tax returns. I want a mechanic like the Daemonkin blood points - where what happens in the game actually affects the rule. What I don't want is a boring-as-hell table wherein the pain I cause has sod-all effect on the power I gain. Hell, the current mechanic basically rewards me for not playing the game. There are already plenty of reasons for me to not play this bloody game, without my army being apparently built round the concept.

gw's point is: you shouldnt play the game, you should assemble and paint miniatures and leave them on your table to admire

doriii wrote:

gw's point is: you shouldnt play the game, you should assemble and paint miniatures and leave them on your table to admire

Actually... I've long held a theory that the more attractive models tend to have less well thought out and effective rules, simply because they don't need to dominate the tabletop to sell themselves.

Wyches, kabalites, incubi, wracks, hellions, mandrakes etc all *look* pretty awesome.  People are drawn to them and will buy them regardless of how pointless they actually are.

In contrast we have the grotesque model, which almost no one uses due to it's single, bulky, unattractive pose, high price, and rarity.  7th edition basically made it the best unit in the book...

Makes me wonder if they'll nerf it again after they sell off their current stock.

stilgar27 wrote:

doriii wrote:

gw's point is: you shouldnt play the game, you should assemble and paint miniatures and leave them on your table to admire

Actually... I've long held a theory that the more attractive models tend to have less well thought out and effective rules, simply because they don't need to dominate the tabletop to sell themselves.

Well, that basically explains our entire codex.


That being said, the trouble with this theory is that beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder. I mean, if this design philosophy was in place, I'd take one look at the new Archon model and think he'd need to have wraithknight-levels of overpoweredness if we ever want him to leave the shelf.

The Shredder wrote:

That being said, the trouble with this theory is that beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder. I mean, if this design philosophy was in place, I'd take one look at the new Archon model and think he'd need to have wraithknight-levels of overpoweredness if we ever want him to leave the shelf.

I feel that way about wyches, no way do women have arms like pop-eye it just looks wrong so I convert all my female wyches to make them more feminine. Still I keep hearing from the guys at game club how overpowered Dark Eldar used to be why can't we go back to that time, then our models would have legitimate reasons to be expensive (points and currency wise).

Reminds me of something I saw in a general wishlisting thread on dakkadakka a while back:

"I want some female heads for my guardsmen."

"I want some female heads for my Sisters of Battle."

I think The Shredder nailed it in the long post about Archon etc. So much of the fluff hasn't been translated to table. The unit of mine most feared by my mate (especially fielding Deathwing/Dark Angels) - the Razorwing with Disintegrator Cannons. It had Terminators hiding on cover last time we played, plus scoring 7 Termies killed and 11 regular marines...

anyway I digress, there's no sense in the codex

I'd just like to post something from the upcoming corsair codex:

Spoiler:

This is the sort of thing I'd love to see in our codex: a) because it opens up a great deal of customisation and flavour options for characters (which I love), as well as allowing the effects to filter down to other units in the army. b) because it's a great example of rules mirroring fluff. c) because it shows a lot of sodding effort and creativity. In fact, I'd postulate that more effort went into this one ability than went into the entire DE codex.

I don't even know if this will make Princes powerful, but it looks like it will at least make them fun. If Archons had a table along these lines, I would probably be prepared to overlook virtually every other fault in our codex.

...

Alright, I'd want wings as well.

My personal tweaks I'd like to see, bear in mind, I've only used about half the units in the codex, but yeah.

Archon has an extra point in strength and toughness, comes with 3+ or 4+ armor.

Soul Trap will increase strength by 1 for every 5 models killed by the Archon, challenges still increase the strength as normal.

Incubi gain an extra attack, gain Fear and Fearless, given a ranged weapon on their helmets with 8" range.

Venom may replace twin-linked splinter rifle with splinter cannon, Heat Lance OR Disintegrator cannon.

VRB front and side armor increased to AV 11.

Void lance, and Disintegrator Cannon would be added to Heavy Weapons list.

Haywire Blaster and Heat Lance would be added to the Special Weapons list and available to Kabalite trueborn and Kabalite Warrior.

Introduce a Dais of Destruction, preferably with D-Strength weapons, and a built in shadowfield type of thing that gives a 3+ save AV13 Front and side, AV 11 rear, serves as a 8 model transport, if assaulted, models embarked have melee capabilities, with an 4+ cover save.

Flesh mask as wargear that can be given to: Archon, Syarbite, and Dracon, that gives Fear.

Disintegrator cannon Strength increased to 6 or 7.

Void Lance and Void Mine strength increased to 10 and AP to 1.

Kabalite Trueborn have 4+ armor and can fire Heavy Weapons at full BS after moving.

Dark Scythes regular Blast becomes Large Blast.

Raiders AV is increased to 12 on front and side.

Ravagers may take Dark Lances OR Dark Scythes.

Klaives and Demi-Klaives gain Fleshbane.

Introduce Kabalite Snipers, same stats as regular Kabalite Warriors, but come equipped with Hex Rifles, squad size begins at 3 up to 6.

Shadowfield effect continues as normal even if an unsaved wound is scored.

Grotesques gain It Will Not Die.

I typed in a format that makes it easier to read, I'm aware some of the tweaks are already in the codex, just try and ignore it.

The Fume Knight, I like a lot of your suggestions, but I'd just like to comment on some:

The Fume Knight wrote:

Archon has an extra point in strength and toughness, comes with 3+ or 4+ armor.

I wouldn't mind that. Or even S4 T3 but with Eternal Warrior.

The Fume Knight wrote:

Venom may replace twin-linked splinter rifle with splinter cannon, Heat Lance OR Disintegrator cannon.

Might it be better to have a Heavy version of the Heat Lance for the Venom? In the same way that marine vehicles have multi-meltas, rather than meltas.

Also, I'd suggest letting it replace its top gun with one from that list as well (otherwise, if you take the heat lance to use against vehicles, the top weapon might as well be a pineapple   ).

The Fume Knight wrote:

Incubi gain an extra attack, gain Fear and Fearless, given a ranged weapon on their helmets with 8" range.

Instead of Fear, can they have assault grenades?  

The Fume Knight wrote:

Raiders AV is increased to 12 on front and side.

AV12 might be a bit much. We're supposed to be fragile, after all.  

The Fume Knight wrote:

Soul Trap will increase strength by 1 for every 5 models killed by the Archon, challenges still increase the strength as normal.

That's a bit... optimistic.  

Personally, if you go down that sort of route, I think the soul trap should collect souls from models that die near the archon (e.g. within 6" or maybe 12") - rather than being limited to models he killed personally. I'd also like to see it grant a few bonuses (not just strength), but then I'd like a lot of things.  

The Fume Knight wrote:

Flesh mask as wargear that can be given to: Archon, Syarbite, and Dracon, that gives Fear.

Sorry, but why Fear of all things? It's one of the most useless rules in the game, and we've already got an over-abundance of it in both this book and the coven one.

It just seems a bit silly to go to the trouble of bringing back a cool piece of wargear, only to give it an awful rule.  

The Fume Knight wrote:

Shadowfield effect continues as normal even if an unsaved wound is scored.

I'd suggest a variation on this whereby if the Archon goes an entire player turn without taking a wound, his Shadowfield is automatically reactivated.

I think this fits the fluff a bit better - of the opponent manages to land a blow then his shadowfield goes down. But, if they don't manage to follow up, the darkness gradually returns until he's cloaked again.

The Fume Knight wrote:

Grotesques gain It Will Not Die.

Would you object to them getting this via either PfP or Haemonculi?

maybe we should do a poll? pick the top 5 -10 tweaks to the current codex, that are easy to change and don't require changes to the current plastic kits. (because lets face it a new codex is a long way off and they are not gonna change kits anytime soon either).

We could then send these ideas/tweaks as a collective to GW and maybe they would take some on onboard via an faq errata etc.

Here's my top ten -

1. During the assault phase wyches have a 4+ invun. save and rending or extra attack or poison 4+ in HtH.
2. Shredder is a template weapon.
3. Scourges changed from jump inf. to jet pack inf.
4. Ravagers can exchange dis. cannon for dark lances for free.
5. Incubi come with assault grenades/or if klaivex is purchased he gives them to the unit.
6. Razorwing gets vector dancer / and or skilled rider/pilot.
7. Void bomber - armour 11, 2 void bombs and immunity to interceptor.
8. Helm of spite gives all models with Dark elder faction Adamantium will and expand the perils on any doubles to 24 inches.
9. Hellions - gain Rage and immune overwatch.
10. Archon and succibus options expanded - jetbikes, hellion skyboard or scourage wings along with other weapon options.

I suspect there are too many options for a proper poll.

Oh well, here are my 10, in no particular order:

1) Additional options for HQs including Wings/Skyboard and Jetbike options, and at least one AP2 weapon for the Archon. Also, the Archon gets a choice of traits along the lines of the Corsair Prince.
2) Better PfP - preferably along the lines of Blood Points. At the very least, we need 3 tables (one for Kabalites with shooting bonuses, one for Wyches with assault bonuses and one for Coven stuff). Maybe let characters get benefits from 2 tables.
3) All DE have Rending in melee.
4) Night Shields go back to their old effect.
5) Ravagers get back Aerial Assault and get a 15pt price reduction.
6) Price reductions on wargear. Making us pay stupid amounts for melee weapons and such (and crap melee weapons at that) defeats the purpose of having cheap HQs in the first place - especially when they're utterly worthless before wargear. Also, all HQs and unit sergeants get haywire grenades for free. 5pts apiece is too much even for HQs, and sergeants are overcosted anyway.
7) Haemonculi need to be much better support units. Have them grant IWND to themselves and their units. Also (if PfP stays the same), have their Master of Pain rule affect all units within 12" - not just their own. Urien's should affect the entire field as long as he's alive.
Hellions and Wracks both become troops.
9) Incubi get assault grenades.
10) More 'bite' in general. We're supposed to be a glass cannon army, but at the moment we're just glass. Surely, if we're going to have fragile units, then our weapons should be more effective than those of more resilient races - not less.


Oh, I have a question for you guys. How would you feel about Hellions replacing wyches as troops and wyches replacing bloodbrides as elites (with appropriate buffs, obviously)?

I think we should change as few things as possible:

1 make soulfright work against ATSKNF and fearless with a reduced 'strength'
2 make witches choose their drugs at the beginning of each turn. But not the same drug two times behind another.
3 make three power from Pain tables. One for every aspect.
4 give the succubus the option to buy a bike or Hellions thing. Let's face it, it is for her and not the Archon
5 give the Archon the possibility to buy scourges wings.

CptMetal wrote:

I think we should change as few things as possible:

I don't.

CptMetal wrote:

1 make soulfright work against ATSKNF and fearless with a reduced 'strength'

Why does it need the reduced strength? The effect already has a ton of disadvantages (can only work once per shooting phase, you have no idea what - if anything - it will do until it's too late to commit further shooting, etc.). Especially against ATSKNF, I don't think it needs to suffer from reduced strength as well.

I can accept a penalty against Fearless (or even it not working at all), but I don't think there should be a penalty against ATSKNF.

Seriously guys, Just do corsairs come November.  Forgeworld has pretty much got us covered.

Wishlist Request / Corsair Options that fill it

Hq on a bike or jetpack? Corsair HQ can take either. give him a shadowfield, laugh maniacally.
Splinter rifle and lance troops with 4+ armor, grenades, and relentless? You're describing Reavers
Scourges that can take jet-packs?... literally the whole corsair army can, including walkers
Heat lances on troops? No, but melta guns and fusion pistols everywhere
More heavy weapons options?  so many that some are literally redundant
Shredder as a template?  No, but plenty of good old fashioned 5 point flamers
Better PFP? Marauders get basically every benefit on turn 1, and jetpacks, 4+ armor, grenades, gunslinger...
Rending Melee? No but Marauders also have access to power weapons (1 in 5)
Better Drugs? yep, take them on any unit for +15 points (have to take the warlord ability though)
Firing all ravager's lances after moving?  Hornet is way better, but 5 Balestrike with jetpacks and lances fill a heavy slot better for the same price
Increase strength on disintegrators? Nope but 3 Dissonance hits makes them all str7 ap2. Plus corsairs have access to scatter-lasers.
More/nastier blasts?  squad of 3 warp hunters put out 6-12 strength D(-1) blasts a turn, lynx does a large blast D
Vector dance and agile on our fighter? That and corsair interceptor gets stealth too, for 2++ jinks, mitigated by high volume shooting (shuriken cannons/lances)
Anti air?  Missile launchers anywhere you want or - 6 Strength 6, twin-linked, rending, skyfire, interceptor, ignore cover shots on a fast skimmer tank
*edit* forgot to mention the 60" range on that bad boy

The only thing effectively missing is ranged haywire, but most units can take haywire grenades for a flat fee and even the corsair scout/pathfinders can take melta guns.

stilgar27 wrote:

Seriously guys, Just do corsairs come November.  

I plan to.

At the very least, I'll be taking a corsair HQ in every game. Every. Game.

But, in all probability, I'll be taking a lot more than that.

@The Shredder.

The Archon soul trap idea of yours is really nice, a 6" radius would make it quite effective, and it'd be pretty realistic.

The flesh mask idea for me is just for what I imagine it'd do haha, I took the idea from the first few pages of the codex where it shows the Archon, and how the Archon back in previous editions had the same type of mask, It could have any number of effects, Fear just seems to match it. haha

Assault grenades, I personally am new enough that I literally have never used grenades, I know thats bad, but I totally space it, ha, but yeah, I imagine a elite melee force having grenades would make a lot of sense.

The Heat lance on the venom, yeah, It'd need a choice of some, I just figure a speedy transport with melta would be pretty cool, but the already built in splinter cannon would need to be replaced, perhaps there could be a choice option haha.

The Raider armor value for me is just for durability, but thinking more about it, it'd make far more sense to just give it a flickerfield or something similar, I just know a massive transport with very little defense needs much more survivability.

Soul trap increasing different stats would also be cool, I just would figure models he would kill would give the extra bonus, I figure an Archon slaying a squad in melee and getting 1 point for 5 kills seems adequate, but I suppose if he started with 4 strength then the soul trap as is could be fine. haha

If I recall correctly, the Shadowfield after it shorts out it only does after that turn, so you could take an unsaved wound, and you'd still have the shadowfield active for the other 3 attacks, but once the turn is over the shadowfield is too, I just figure for 40 points for a piece of wargear that shorts out, while most enemy warlords already have 2+ armor in general it'd only make sense for it to at least be on par with them.

PfP with the grotesques would probably be better.

If the Archon could actually get Eternal Warrior that'd be great. Since he has no toughness you have to worry about going into an assault with basic enemy meatshields, just knowing one happens to have a power fist or the like.

The Fume Knight wrote:

The Raider armor value for me is just for durability, but thinking more about it, it'd make far more sense to just give it a flickerfield or something similar, I just know a massive transport with very little defense needs much more survivability.

I think leaving it at AV10 and giving it Flickerfield or Night Shields would be more fluffy than raising its AV.

I know where you're coming from though. It's more than a little aggravating that we have paper-thin armour in exchange for speed, but now every big unit is given 12" movement for free with no reduction to their ridiculous toughness.

The Fume Knight wrote:

If I recall correctly, the Shadowfield after it shorts out it only does after that turn, so you could take an unsaved wound, and you'd still have the shadowfield active for the other 3 attacks, but once the turn is over the shadowfield is too, I just figure for 40 points for a piece of wargear that shorts out, while most enemy warlords already have 2+ armor in general it'd only make sense for it to at least be on par with them.

Again, I know what you mean.

Shadowfield used to cost 25pts, and should never have had its price raised. it's utterly ludicrous that a 60pt HQ has to pay 66.6% of his base cost for a 2++ that's lost as soon as he fails a save, whilst a 130pt Chapter Master pays a mere 11.5% for a 3++ that never goes away. Especially when that Chapter Master is T4 with an additional wound (as well as having access to a 2+ save and T5, if desired).

I mean, when you consider the base cost of the models, the Archon is paying over 5 times as much as the Chapter Master for his invulnerable save. Is he going to be getting 5 times the value from it? I highly doubt it.

Hell, even his bloody 4++ costs more than a storm shield! (and 33% of his base cost, so just under 3 times what the chapter master pays).

Anyway, I'd rather the Shadowfield got a price drop (it really shouldn't be more than 30pts, even with this buff), and could be reactivated somehow after failing. But, I think it should still fail, because a 2++ really should have a meaningful downside (especially if we're talking about giving the Archon T4 or EW).

Also, something of an aside, but I'd really like to see a reduction in invulnerable saves in this game. A 3++ should be really rare - not something that's practically standard on all melee/tank units. And, invulnerable saves should never, ever be rerollable. It's a mechanic that simply shouldn't exist.

The Fume Knight wrote:

If the Archon could actually get Eternal Warrior that'd be great.   Since he has no toughness you have to worry about going into an assault with basic enemy meatshields, just knowing one happens to have a power fist or the like.

I was wondering about Soul Trap granting Eternal Warrior if you collected enough. At the very least, I kinda feel we should have something that grants EW to an Archon, even if it means jumping through a hoop or two.

Yeah. Make invulnerable saves not able to re roll. THAT'S a rule the game needs!

^ Very true on the invulns, it shocks me how many high ones are out, and nothing annoys me more than when something can reflect an ap2 weapon of mine. Lol.

As for the Archon, I do like the fact of the soul trap leading to Eternal Warrior, or even other abilities combo'd with the stat buffs, a thing I see about it is the way the Dark City is, most mercenaries, the Archon can barely trust his own Kabal, much less anything outside of it, everything seems almost based off chance. Using the Archon currently with a soul trap and a huskblade is Russian Roulette, gotta show your alligator blood to get a big payout, it'd be nice if they put some real soul trap things up to make the payout even bigger. ;D But with that, it would be nice to have him be a threat to units with no upgrades. a stock archon atm with a huskblade and a splinter pistol would get killed by a squad of 4 Ork boyz and a nob with a power klaw, even if the Archon charged. :/

The Fume Knight wrote:

But with that, it would be nice to have him be a threat to units with no upgrades.  a stock archon atm with a huskblade and a splinter pistol would get killed by a squad of 4 Ork boyz and a nob with a power klaw, even if the Archon charged. :/

7

Oh, I quite agree. It would be nice to see him start at S4 and for the Huskblade to be AP2.

The other thing I've noticed though is that we have virtually no rerolls in our army. You'd think an Archon (or even Haemonculus) might have something like Preferred Enemy, but nope. Or, maybe have access to one Master Crafted melee weapon? Nope. I guess our highly advanced race just pays orks to build all their weapons (which, incidentally, would go a long way to explaining the Djin Blade... ). Or, how about Shred? No, that's reserved for the S7 Talos - clearly the unit that needs it most.

Yeah, mostly the DE were so visually gorgeous, and thats what made me start buying them, I had a few small chaos units first.. Then the DE came in, and now they are my main army, but yes, its pretty ludicrous at how some of the things in our codex compare to the other races, Archon is basically a pushover, I haven't used a Haemonculous, the Djin blade, I would say was actually a really cool idea, and a sword with that type of lore behind it is badass, like the Archons one drug he always gets high on, sadly enough the cool design was thrown awry, as if the Archons livability wasn't bad enough. It'd be awesome if they'd give us some nice things in our codex that can be on par with other races..

In a side note when I found out a Witchblade has, not only fleshbane, but armorbane too, I was in disgust. I always thought that the Incubi Klaives would be at least some type of insane master crafted weapon with similar stats, instead it seems like the Craftworld eldar blow Commorraugh eldar away too quick, not to mention the other races do too. :s