How do you equip/use MSU Warriors?

Since a lot of people seem to rate warriors a lot more highly than I do, I thought I'd see how you guys use Warriors.

- Do you give them blasters?
- Do you deploy them in their transports, or elsewhere?
- Are you aggressive with them, or do you keep them back?
- Do you keep them in their transports, or disembark them?

Any other general tactics, strategies and/or uses you'd like to share?

i never really expect anything of them, and tend to use them as such.
so when they get to shoot and i have them always at 5man/blaster im almost always surprised. The blaster seems to miss or get a "1" on wounding but the splinters do the extra edge in the fight.

Sometimes its worth having 5 naked + DL raider for the duality and simplicity in shooting, try deepstriking 6 of them somewhere nicely packed and they will murder stuff. I once played an IG parking lot and Deep struck 6x5manblasterDLraider on one side and had them close together working as a single unit just being in the guys face. It was amazing how long they lasted with jinking, moving into CC for stalling units and basicly taking the heat off the rest of my stuff.

when im list building i start with 2x5 guys then after the list is somewhat done i'll check if there's points left to give them a ride, single shot lances do it for me so most of the time they get the raider.
The extra 15 points for a blaster is almost always worth it, as you can have 3 for one raider for example and i seem to find those points in the end.

They are useful for objectives, blocking stuff or just plain sacrifice be it in the open or melee. Cheap stuff

I've run a few squads with mixed success.

5x with Blaster in a Venom or Raider
10x with splinter cannon in the backfield

The squad in the ground usually lives longer and dies a decent amount of shooting, but primary objective is to camp on an objective. It also makes a great landing place for a Farseer on a jetbike.

I run them with no upgrades. I use them as cheap and disposable units that can be used to hide behind LOS and sit on objectives, a reasonable source of shooting, can be sacrificed as blockers or charge large entrenched units to pull them off objectives. They can be handy for contesting and bait as well. Soaking overwatch is another classic use. Basically they are my o so important fodder units. They spend more time out of venoms than in venoms that's for sure.

What unit size do you use Mush? Just a five man squad for the Venom?

Yes.

Mushkilla wrote:

I run them with no upgrades. I use them as cheap and disposable units that can be used to hide behind LOS and sit on objectives

Last couple games I played with venom spam I did the same.  The real question for me has become - under what conditions to go to ground?  I'm less and less concerned with trying to really hurt anything with kabalites any more, and really just trying to push their durability as much as possible.  Since they typically swing first in combat regardless, I've been hitting the dirt pretty much whenever someone draws a bead on them.

Mushkilla wrote:

They spend more time out of venoms than in venoms that's for sure.

Indeed, I don't find their added firepower to be worth the added risk of getting roasted in their transport or blown to pieces along with it.  I find I'm much better off making my opponent pick what he wants to go after, rather than delivering 2 kill point targets to him.

I have only recently been adding a blaster to the group and I've found them more effective than without.
The reason I decided on the blaster was that I find that the kabalites are the tax for troop choice venoms(in a MSU situation - Max Raider Splinter Racks is a different and I'd never add non splinter weapons to that platform), so the difference between 4 poison guns and 5 poison guns is negligible. Adding a blaster almost guarantees a wound on <T6. Adding one ap2 s8 shot into a volley of 5 total shots is a huge wound probability jump, especially when you get to separate the 12 shots coming out of the venom at a different target

I always deploy them in transports (but for friendly games not against Eldar, I'm thinking I need to tone it down and drop some transports... story for another day I think).

As for whether I'm aggressive with them or not.. It really depends on my opponent's list, the table, the mission. I like to run at least 2 combat units, units I prefer to hit their target, so if I have to expose those raiders to get them across the board (whether it's that there's no terrain to block them completely or the opponent has deployed in such a way that I can't hide then move>charge next turn) then I have no problems presenting other targets to my opponent. Although, I have to prove that those venoms are just as much of a threat as the combat units.
So yes, I will play them aggressively. Against a horde army though... you bet I'll play on the 36" fringe as long as possible!

I was previously running 5-man, blaster and venom but the blaster literally did NOTHING in pretty much every game so I've dropped it now and used the points elsewhere.

I've been thinking about how I'm going to run warriors and I myself will probably follow the crowd and just do 2 5 man squads in venoms with duel splinter cannons. Cheap and efficient(?)

I use five dude squads in a Venom with a Blaster but I recently put them into a Raider with a Lance because I forgot the Venom at home.

I had a blast!

CptMetal wrote:

I use five dude squads in a Venom with a Blaster but I recently put them into a Raider with a Lance because I forgot the Venom at home.

I had a blast!

What did you do with them?

Had a blast


Get it, because blaster!

I still need to use Shredders sometime. For rather obvious reasons...

The reasons for not using them are sadly all too obvious too

It's strength 6, which isn't tooooooooo bad. Throw a few in a true born unit maybe?

nexs wrote:

It's strength 6, which isn't tooooooooo bad. Throw a few in a true born unit maybe?

It's a short range small blast with no AP. Oh and it's S6, so wounds most stuff on a 2+, and has Shred which it really doesn't need. I think that just about covers the reasons for not taking it.

If it was a flamer, I'd be a lot more interested.

I'd like the shredder to have a template as well, but what I feel it really should have had in the first place is the monofilament rule.  This would make it pretty useful against some nasty MC and (more importantly) GC.  The AP would still suck most of the time, dat pseudo-rending in a unit of 4 is bound to ruin something's day though.

Honestly I think the shredder should have the monofilament rule like Eldar warp spiders.
That and either have an 18" range or be a template

Shredders should have the monofilament rule but sadly they do not so never going to get taken over a blaster.

i usually take a blaster in my small warrior squads i usually average 3 squads in venoms and 2 10 mans with a cannon in a raider. the small squads get used as mobile cover for anything that i consider actually important usually going forward with any assault elements to give them a cover save and/or soak overwatch. I like the blaster purely for that extra little bit of AV it gives as we can always use more.

BTW what's the mono filament rule?

I tend to take 2 5man squads in Venoms with no upgrades and try to either hover around an objective with that venom, sniping at stuff, so when it pops, the remaining troops are still sat on the objective. If I start to swing an obvious advantage, I'll move the Venoms forwards and use the extra 10 shots at 24" as a little extra dakka. I tried using Blasters on in the unit for a while, but it's just too rare that they ever do anything of any value. I'd rather take an extra unit somewhere else.

CptMetal wrote:

BTW what's the mono filament rule?

Monofilament rule rolls strength versus initiative instead of toughness.  So you'd be rolling 6 strength vs in the case of a wraithknight 5 initiative.  Toughness is still used for instant death however.  I'm not sure how shred would figure in to all that.  Also any rolls to wound of 6 are considered AP2 unless already better (I call this, and the bladestorm equivalent "pseudo-rending").

The shredder is the only monofilament ranged weapon (as listed in it's description) that doesn't actually have the monofilament rule, other than the shadow-weaver which is a flat AP3 and blind.

Even the harlequin's kiss which is a monofilament melee weapon has some AP2 ability, as a user gains one AP 2 strength 6 per combat phase (with instant death).

I don't think that there is a universal strategy for them that can be provided. Part of what makes them seem bad is that they're not specialist so there isn't any specific way to use them. Points to keep in mind is that they are cheap so you should be able to sacrifice them if needed without changing the plans for the rest of your list. This is great to help bubble up against drop pod lists and the like. They are also cheap enough that they can sit around and do nothing until you actually need them, so you can hide them till you need to claim an objective or whatever.

I usually use 2 units warriors with a venom. I sometimes take a blaster sometimes I don't. I usually disembark my warriors in cover near an objective, but I won't necessarily park them on the objective unless I will get a point for it. I find it's more important that they have athe best cover save they can. Early in they shoot at whatever they can, and when they get shot at I go to ground to preserve the unit. It's more important to keep them alive to grab the near objectives, or to continue to draw fire than to kill with them.

Their venom will be 36" away from the thing it's shooting if possible, while either out of LOS or out range of the enemies army if I can manage it. I will only get closer with it if I can gain points by doing so.

This is just how I commonly use them, but honestly it's most important to be flexible with them.