Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex

fisheyes wrote:

Eh, I think we still have a place for Incubi in their current form, its just not what we want.

A 3 man squad in a dual SC venom is fairly reasonable cost, with a good amount of damage output, and operates as a decent back-field babysitter. If a pod of 5 marines drops down, it can easily handle it, then return to throwing the poison downfield at 36".

Its just that we want them to be like space marines, who walk up the field and kill everything they touch. That they are not.

I didnt see the rules for his Tormentor Helms, so if they prevent OW, then that should be awesome (although, I have yet to see Banshees on the table in 7th even with their own version)

Very good point they do suit quite well as an anti-drop pod squad.

However, I would like to see the ultimate murderisers of the most murderising faction have a bit of a nastier punch.

I tihnk the issue with Banshees is that they're competing with some pretty broken units in that codex (Scatbikes and Spiders mainly). They're good units in isolation (although S3 and AP3 Swords do hurt them), but suffer from there being much better units in the codex, especially during a decidedly shooty edition.

Not such a problem with the DE codex :S

Besides, if they negate overwatch and have their S+1 AP2 Klaives striking at initiative suddenly there's very little that's not scared of them...

They can keep the lack of grenades so you can hide from them in cover if you like. Oh, and apparently the Eldar codex says that negating overwatch is worth precisely 2pts (Banshee Mask for Autarchs).

I'd pay an extra 2pts per Incubi for them to negate overwatch (or even 2pts of wargear on a Klaivex).

Edit: wait, what? Incubi strike at I1? Or is that only through cover...

Ynneadwraith wrote:

Edit: wait, what? Incubi strike at I1? Or is that only through cover...

Just through cover, but that's where any decent player is going to put anything he doesn't want assaulted.

Count Adhemar wrote:

Ynneadwraith wrote:

Edit: wait, what? Incubi strike at I1? Or is that only through cover...

Just through cover, but that's where any decent player is going to put anything he doesn't want assaulted.

Unless, of course, he's got two Heavy Flamers and is firmly of the belief that his unit is unassaultable

That's where they could shine

I've kind of shot myself in the foot with my gaming group. Because they're terrified of my Dark Eldar (I win roughly 70-80% of my games with DE) they don't think the codex needs any help so no chance of playing my homebrew

True regarding the Banshees. I guess they are also lacking an assault transport, which further hurts them.

I would be more than happy to pay 2 pts to negate OW for assaulting. However, I think nades would be better all around (so we dont need to worry about the -2" charge and I1)

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I've kind of shot myself in the foot with my gaming group. Because they're terrified of my Dark Eldar (I win roughly 70-80% of my games with DE) they don't think the codex needs any help so no chance of playing my homebrew Sad

How's your meta and against what armies (and list types) do you play that you win so much?

Main opponents are Tyranids (so no surprise winning there), CSM/Daemons, Necrons and SW (but not generally competitive builds). The only guy who goes in for more competitive armies tends to run the latest big thing. GK in 5th, Necrons in 6th and Eldar in 7th, plus he's got a SM army. My MSU builds just tend to fare well against them for some reason.

So, how would rate this power level in theory?

I have 'only' been playing about a month and a half, but this seems absolutely OP to me. Am I just being new/silly/never seen a decent power level codex?

Alanthemoderate wrote:

Am I just being new/silly/never seen a decent power level codex?

Yep.

If you're really interested, buy a 5th edition DE codex. You can probably find one on ebay for 5 dollars or something. But if you get it, compare things 1 for 1 against our current codex. There were roughly 30 nerfs or eliminated characters.

Or if you do a search, I've posted the list on here several times. I just don't want to try to find it on here, and am not at my home computer where I have the list saved.

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

Alanthemoderate wrote:

Am I just being new/silly/never seen a decent power level codex?

Yep.

If you're really interested, buy a 5th edition DE codex. You can probably find one on ebay for 5 dollars or something. But if you get it, compare things 1 for 1 against our current codex. There were roughly 30 nerfs or eliminated characters.

Or if you do a search, I've posted the list on here several times. I just don't want to try to find it on here, and am not at my home computer where I have the list saved.

I actually looked through your posts to find that one, instead of buying an old codex. I take back what I said, thank you for doing the good work of helping us out!

Glad I could help!

I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread that it is entirely possible that my homebrew is OP. I've basically tried to fix all the problems that I see with our codex and, whilst I don't feel that any individual change is OP, it may well be that the sum of those changes is.

This is very much a creative and intellectual exercise for me but if anyone in Nottingham should happen to read it and take some of the ideas for the next official codex then hopefully it won't have been a waste of time. Plus I enjoyed doing it!

Hi! I'm a bit late to the party, but I thought I might give my two cents.

First, just let me say that I've been following this thread for a while, and it is arguably the reason I created an account on this site.

I absolutely love what you've done, this is honestly a phenomenal codex and is objectively better than the crazed chaos that GW has been pumping out as of late.

However, there are a few concerns I have with the dex.

First and foremost, I'm surprised that the Helm of Spite hasn't been brought up before. It's generally our only widely (well, comparatively) available psychic defense, and in the current codex it's woefully inept at its job.

For clarification, the helm currently gives Adamantium Will to all friendly DE units within 12" and forces perils on any doubles.

However, it's a pricey 25 points, a fact that doesn't justify its somewhat paltry benefits. I would suggest a point reduction.

Next, our good friends the Kabalite Warriors - The backbone of many DE armies. I've always views Dark Eldar as an extremely elitist army (Splinter weapons shred most infantry models, but are useless against vehicles, Dissie Cannons are the bane of Terminators and 2+ Marines, but are ineffective against hordes and all but the lightest vehicles, etc.). Essentially, both our fluff and crunch generally paint us as an army who bring one unit to do one job, and not much else. My main concern is giving Kabalites access to pistols. It doesn't do much, admittedly, however, I feel it sets a bad precedent. Kabalites are our shooty units, firing of salvos from the deck of a swooping spiky pirate ship. If they're in melee, they're not being used to their full effectiveness, and it can be argued that you're using them wrong. Call me a prude, but adding a piece of melee equipment to a ranged unit comes across as odd and not really aligning with my perception of the fluff.

These are the only ones I have time for right now, I love this codex...now if only I could convince my friends that the DE aren't one of the most overpowered armies in the game..

TheBaconPope wrote:

First, just let me say that I've been following this thread for a while, and it is arguably the reason I created an account on this site.

Welcome to Commorragh!

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I absolutely love what you've done, this is honestly a phenomenal codex and is objectively better than the crazed chaos that GW has been pumping out as of late.

Thank you kindly! When I wrote it I was a bit concerned that it might be OP but with the latest output from GW, what with the ridiculous Imperial Triumvirates and the power of the Ynnari, I actually think it might be a bit tame!

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However, there are a few concerns I have with the dex.

First and foremost, I'm surprised that the Helm of Spite hasn't been brought up before. It's generally our only widely (well, comparatively) available psychic defense, and in the current codex it's woefully inept at its job.

For clarification, the helm currently gives Adamantium Will to all friendly DE units within 12" and forces perils on any doubles.

However, it's a pricey 25 points, a fact that doesn't justify its somewhat paltry benefits. I would suggest a point reduction.

You may want to check out my revised version of the Crucible of Malediction. It now gives automatic Perils to any psyker within 3d6"

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Next, our good friends the Kabalite Warriors - The backbone of many DE armies. I've always views Dark Eldar as an extremely elitist army (Splinter weapons shred most infantry models, but are useless against vehicles, Dissie Cannons are the bane of Terminators and 2+ Marines, but are ineffective against hordes and all but the lightest vehicles, etc.). Essentially, both our fluff and crunch generally paint us as an army who bring one unit to do one job, and not much else. My main concern is giving Kabalites access to pistols. It doesn't do much, admittedly, however, I feel it sets a bad precedent. Kabalites are our shooty units, firing of salvos from the deck of a swooping spiky pirate ship. If they're in melee, they're not being used to their full effectiveness, and it can be argued that you're using them wrong. Call me a prude, but adding a piece of melee equipment to a ranged unit comes across as odd and not really aligning with my perception of the fluff.

I get your point but the PfP table leans heavily towards melee abilities so I thought the simple addition of a pistol would give our warriors the means to take advantage of those buffs that would otherwise mean little to them.

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I get your point but the PfP table leans heavily towards melee abilities so I thought the simple addition of a pistol would give our warriors the means to take advantage of those buffs that would otherwise mean little to them.

You're arguably far more knowledgable on this subject than I am; quick math hammer means an extra attack means the difference between 0 dead marines, and 1. The pistol would definitely help them hold their own, but even factoring in things like FC means that our poor Kabalites can't reliably finish off a unit by themselves. Not to say that the addition is useless--I think it would minimize casualties while they wait for rescue from our no-longer-sucky Wytches or similar melee unit, Kabalites certainly aren't going to be charging into battle anytime soon.

I understand that Pfp definitely favors close combat, but the shortfalls for our shooty units might be solved more by alterations to the rule itself.

The changes to the Crucible make it something I look forward to taking, my one concern is that those who prefer not to run a coven list might be left in the dark. Perhaps expand it to other HQs as well?

I'm also a little hesitant to accept Dark Lances as an Assault Weapon. I've always been amused by the Kabalite models holding a gun far larger than they are, but a gun twice as long as you are tall really doesn't strike me as something geared for assault. However, I understand the frustration of being forced to fire snaps when the transport designed to move fast and often, unsurprisingly moves. Perhaps a rule that allows them to be fired normally when embarked, but act as a heavy weapon when footslogging? Or a piece of vehicle equipment that allows for that?

TheBaconPope wrote:

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I get your point but the PfP table leans heavily towards melee abilities so I thought the simple addition of a pistol would give our warriors the means to take advantage of those buffs that would otherwise mean little to them.

You're arguably far more knowledgable on this subject than I am; quick math hammer means an extra attack means the difference between 0 dead marines, and 1. The pistol would definitely help them hold their own, but even factoring in things like FC means that our poor Kabalites can't reliably finish off a unit by themselves. Not to say that the addition is useless--I think it would minimize casualties while they wait for rescue from our no-longer-sucky Wytches or similar melee unit, Kabalites certainly aren't going to be charging into battle anytime soon.

I understand that Pfp definitely favors close combat, but the shortfalls for our shooty units might be solved more by alterations to the rule itself.

By the time you factor in the altered PfP table in my codex, a fully powered up Kabalite will have 4 attacks on the charge (pistol, Rage), Preferred Enemy and Furious Charge. A minimum size unit will kill 2-3 Space Marines on the charge. Not too shabby!

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The changes to the Crucible make it something I look forward to taking, my one concern is that those who prefer not to run a coven list might be left in the dark. Perhaps expand it to other HQs as well?

That's a good point. I might think about adding in some other anti-psyker options for non-coven units.

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I'm also a little hesitant to accept Dark Lances as an Assault Weapon. I've always been amused by the Kabalite models holding a gun far larger than they are, but a gun twice as long as you are tall really doesn't strike me as something geared for assault. However, I understand the frustration of being forced to fire snaps when the transport designed to move fast and often, unsurprisingly moves. Perhaps a rule that allows them to be fired normally when embarked, but act as a heavy weapon when footslogging? Or a piece of vehicle equipment that allows for that?

Yeah, I kind of agree but wanted to keep it simple. Kabalite Warriors/Trueborn are the only units that are affected by this change as Scourges are Relentless now. Overall I think I'd rather swallow something that doesn't quite feel right rather than muck around with yet more new rules.

Thank you so much for your comments!

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By the time you factor in the altered PfP table in my codex, a fully powered up Kabalite will have 4 attacks on the charge (pistol, Rage), Preferred Enemy and Furious Charge. A minimum size unit will kill 2-3 Space Marines on the charge. Not too shabby!

Ah! My mistake! I totally forgot to factor in the very rule it was added for, lol. I'm not totally against the idea (Crazed pointy space elves's probably don't want to confine themselves to a single weapon after all), it just strikes me as a bit odd. But I'll admit, using Kabalites as late game assault troops would be an interesting mechanic for contesting/taking objectives, and finally a decent use of their initiative.

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That's a good point. I might think about adding in some other anti-psyker options for non-coven units.

I look forward to seeing it! I believe you gave me some suggestions on my null engine in another thread, feel free to use/modify any of that if you want!

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Overall I think I'd rather swallow something that doesn't quite feel right rather than muck around with yet more new rules.

I definitely feel the sentiment there. It doesn't particularly matter that much, but certainly doesn't help my case trying to get someone to play me with this codex (Although that's probably to be expected when you play mainly against Orks and IG).
I certainly hope GW takes some notes, God knows we need a boost when the Ultramarines start to come in full force.

Good plan

I haven't read all the posts but this looks awesome, I like the ability to take squadrons of vehicles as a lone ravager is pretty easy to kill, though would it be possible to make some changes to the splinter weapons? Fluff wise the dark eldar are supposed to have some of the strongest poisons in the Galaxy while it is reflected on the CC weapons I don't feel that way with the shooting ... I figured why not make a "Lethal Dose" for shooting attacks call it "Archaic Poisons - the ranged weapons of the dark eldar are equipped with chambers of poisons that make the warriors of the dark city wielding them a terrifying force amongst the lesser races of the galaxy for mere scratches from the projectiles of these weapons mark the target with mere seconds left of life, sometime the chambers poisons mix causing even more gruesome effects the screams of the victims ripping across the battlefield as flesh and armour melt under the combination of poisons ... A "to wound" role of 6 made by a weapon with this special rule is resolved at AP 2 ...

Splinter rifles - 24" assault 2 Archaic Poison

Splinter pods - 18 " Assault 3 Archaic Poison

Splinter Cannon - 36" Salvo 4/6 Archaic Poison

Splinter Pistol - 12" Archaic Poison Pistol

And I don't know if it would be a good idea or not but give Trueborn and Scourge or just Scourge the ability to take Disintegrator Cannons?

And couldn't the Master and Father of pain rules add wounds to the wound pool? Or is it going to only effect the fnp? Like add 2 for Master and 3 for Father?

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A "to wound" role of 6 made by a weapon with this special rule is resolved at AP 2

To me, this is awfully similar to the Bladestorm special rule. Fluff-wise, it doesn't seem to make sense that a biological weapon melts through armor (Although one of our weapons turns people into glass, so it's not like logic matters here.)

I understand the sentiment of having our poison more accurately represented, but as far as rules go, Splinter weapons are our basic infantry weapons, which means they really should be roughly equal with bolters in terms of strength. CE get away with their pseudo-rending by sacrificing range, something the more shooty Archons can't give up.

Now that being said, I don't totally dislike the rule. Perhaps it could come with Shardcarbines? As they are mostly available on anti-armor units (Scourges, Trueborn) it could be an interesting mechanic to trade off their high strength capability with cheaper shots at a shorter range.

I wonder, wouldn't this belong in the Rules Development section?

Marrath wrote:

I wonder, wouldn't this belong in the Rules Development section?

Quite probably!

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