Help a new Archon build his army

Hello everyone, I am a new DE player and every excited! I have always wanted a DE army and I have Finally gotten one threw a trade, I got a good amount of things but I know I need more. What I need help with is what I should add and what is good and what isnt.
Here is what I have
1 Archon
1 Haemonculus
1 beast master (with Clawed Fiend, 4 Khymerae)
1 Succubus
1 Sslyth
1 Ur-Ghul
10 wyches
20 Warriors
5 Wracks
10 scourges
5 Hellions
5 Incubi
5 Mandrakes
2 Venom
1 Raider
1 Ravager
1 Talos
1 Cronos
1 Razorwing Jetfighter

I have never played with them and never played against them, looking at the codex Im worries since very poor Armour saves but I still love the army. I am also interested in Harlequins as a ally force, but again I know nothing of them

I'd get a couple more venoms, raiders/ravagers to finish up your mobility ad anti-tank. Some grotesques would be nice as well. There are lots of conversion options out there so you don't pay an arm and a leg for a monopose finecast unit. A few more boxes of warriors wouldn't hurt for a full mono DE force.

As for what isn't (usually) good in your army: Wyches, Hellions, Wracks, Mandrakes and the Ur-Ghul.

One of the few things Wyches do well is tying up small units you don't want shooting or assaulting anyone, but won't be likely to kill the Wyches in one round of overwatch or close combat either. Centurions are probably the best example.

Hellions are not to be used like typlical jump-assault infantry! They can potentially deepstrike to kill lone characters or heavy weapon squads, but will struggle against even those targets unless they happen to be Imperial Guard.

Wracks only make sense as part of certain Coven formations. Outside of that, they can only sit on objectives and hope to be shot/assaulted only by things not strong enough to seriously hurt them. My advice: Buy 5 more, put an Ossefactor in each squad, and each squad in a Venom. That gives you the Scalpel Squadron formation, which is pretty good.

Contrary to their fluff and design, Mandrakes are not actually good in close combat! They are at their best when they can hide in ruins and harass nearby enemies with their Baleblasts. If there is an objective marker inside ruins, they should be able to reliably hold it, unless something with a weapon that ignores cover comes around. Another job they can do is manning fortifications and firing the weapons that come with them.

Everything and Ur-Ghul can do, a Sslyth can do better.

You have a very good base to start with !

Succubus

2 units of Warriors in venoms
1 unit of warriors in raider

Ravager and razor wing as support.

Talos, cronos and hemaonculus as a dark artisan formation. From the coven supplement.

This will be a great starting point for your army!


This is

So another Box of wracks, some more warriors and should I go for more units in venoms or raiders?

Venoms or Raider is available long debate. You'll find people advocating one or the other, in the end, it's up to you.

Quick sum up of the Venom vs Raider dispute. They do different things. The venom has lots of dakka vs infantry or monsterous creatures without a 2+. Raiders are great assault vehicles with potential to be good gunboats if you are willing to take the risk of AV 10.

That's a really good solid base of stuff you've picked up, good eye! Everything Rokuro said is true. I would add that I think the generally accepted rule with lances is something like one lance per 100 points, although if you want to vary that formula, Scourges with haywire blasters have always been pretty great for me. You definitely need more anti-tank, and to specialise the coven stuff a little more, ie make it strong enough to fight independently.

The hellions and beasts aren't really big enough to do very much with, and adding hellions is, unfortunately, not the safest option. They might work as a big unit, but you'll find they're decent against some armies and an easy kill point for others/most. I'd say they're about the only unit in there that you can't do that much with. I haven't used beastmasters this edition, although I might expand the unit I have now I have twenty dire wolves... They're expensive to add to if you do it the way GW want you to. I don't know what I'm doing with them tactically, but if "arena champions" is a direction you fancy going in, dire wolves can work as khymerae and tyranid gargoyles can make interesting razorwing flocks, maybe with a couple per base to make it clear they're a flock.

I am far from the most experienced DE player or a great 40k but as a "newer" DE player I learned quickly that most of the stuff in the book need practice and skill too use. Have no grenades on you elites hurts, flamethrowers hurt, anything really badass in close combat hurts and no cover save shooting just kills your guys...

Cheaper small units is better to run than bigger expensive ones. The bad armor saves just kills them.

Don't get cocky and think that you have the game to early. DE will quickly die and one good round of shooting and a lucky assault can quickly turn the game on you.

Running is often the best staying in combat or assaulting one on one is not always a good idea with DE. Even incubi vs normal SM one bad CC round and the SM will take them down and remember SM don't know fear.... (stupid rule). Just run and shot them to pieces and when you are 99% on winning the assault then do the CC.

Yea was thinking of going mechanized heavy and shooting out of venoms or raiders, was also told harlequins make great allies but I have no idea as I have never seen them on the table. also hear Eldar make great allies as well.

knockout51 wrote:

Yea was thinking of going mechanized heavy and shooting out of venoms or raiders, was also told harlequins make great allies but I have no idea as I have never seen them on the table. also hear Eldar make great allies as well.  

Eldar do. They have assault units that can actually hold on in assault, and with DE transports, can make it into combat. Harlies I'm not too sure about, to me they seem to suffer from a lot of the same problems as DE in being fast but fragile. They do hit harder in close combat though.

Someone was telling me that to shoot at Harlequin units you need to pass a leadership test or fire snap shots. He wasn't making complete sense so I am totally unsure lol.

For my local area I will be palying , CSM, Admech, Nids, Orks, Necrons and SM quite a bit. Im a wolves player my self and the only DE player in the area (but yet to even play a game with DE)

knockout51 wrote:

Someone was telling me that to shoot at Harlequin units you need to pass a leadership test or fire snap shots. He wasn't making complete sense so I am totally unsure lol.

There is no rule in the Harlequin codex for that. Harlequins do cause Fear, but that works only in close combat.

"Everything and Ur-Ghul can do, a Sslyth can do better."

They are not cheaper.

For 15pts with Fear, Fearless, Fleet and FnP, they can actually be fine. Ive been using a unit of them (4) for fun lately and Ive killed well over points value with them every game.

Not enough transports all the time for young archons...

You have lots of stuff to put inside your mobility enhancers and not enough those said mobility enhancers. DE live and die by going for the throat, you need more raiders and venoms to be able to do that. They are you solid base around which to build any army.

amishprn86 wrote:

"Everything and Ur-Ghul can do, a Sslyth can do better."

They are not cheaper.

For 15pts with Fear, Fearless, Fleet and FnP, they can actually be fine. Ive been using a unit of them (4) for fun lately and Ive killed well over points value with them every game.

I guess you wouldn't take them as support for your Archon though.

Rokuro wrote:

amishprn86 wrote:

"Everything and Ur-Ghul can do, a Sslyth can do better."

They are not cheaper.

For 15pts with Fear, Fearless, Fleet and FnP, they can actually be fine. Ive been using a unit of them (4) for fun lately and Ive killed well over points value with them every game.

I guess you wouldn't take them as support for your Archon though.

To me they are better Wracks unless your fighting Eldar.