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 DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts

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Amoksuun
Slave
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Join date : 2011-10-16
Location : Australia

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PostSubject: DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts    DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts  I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 16 2011, 05:56

Been 4-5years since I've played 40k an recently a mate showed me the new codex couldn't resist getting back into the swing of things i came up with the concept below as a versatile army list able to be able to alternate to deal with different races or horde armies. I've also got the option of dropping a 5man wrack squad to bring in 3 implosion missiles dropping out necrotoxin missiles. Being out of the game too long i could really use a hand an critique on weaknesses taking this army list thanks in advance.

HQ's
Urien Rakarth
Lady Malys

Troops
01 - 4 Wracks an a acothyst with liquidifer gun, hex rifle
02 - 4 Wracks an a acothyst with liquidifer gun, hex rifle
03 - 4 Wracks an a acothyst with liquidifer gun, hex rifle

Fast Attack's
01 - 10 scourges with heat lances or able to swap them out for splinter cannons an/or haywire blasters
02 - 10 scourges with heat lances or able to swap them out for splinter cannons an/or haywire blasters
03 - 10 scourges with heat lances or able to swap them out for splinter cannons an/or haywire blasters

Heavy support's
01 - Voidraven Bomber with nightshields, flickerfield missile loadout of 2 necrotoxin, 2 shatterfield
02 - Voidraven Bomber with nightshields, flickerfield missile loadout of 2 necrotoxin, 2 shatterfield
03 - Voidraven Bomber with nightshields, flickerfield missile loadout of 2 necrotoxin, 2 shatterfield



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Gobsmakked
Rumour Scourge
Gobsmakked


Posts : 3274
Join date : 2011-05-14
Location : Vancouver, BC

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PostSubject: Re: DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts    DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts  I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 16 2011, 08:12

Ultimately, play whatever you want, but here's a few quick observations of mine:

You have lots of speed and manoeuvrability, but just footslogging troops with no transportation or portal. Three transports will vastly increase your mobility choices, and if you took three Venoms, your anti-infantry killiness as well. Your bombers are very capable at AI, but they are fire magnets themselves, don't count on them lasting long enough to fire all of their missiles.

Larger troop squads might be useful, these could die quite quickly. Maybe consider one less squad of Scourges and use the savings for more troops, bigger squads, and/or transports.

Scourges - Haywire give you the most range against armour, are quite reliable, and are slightly cheaper. 2 Haywire and 2 Splinter Cannon.

With 3 bombers, I'd be less concerned about Nightshields as it won't matter where you are on the table, something will be able to reach out and touch each of them. Flickerfields, definitely yes.

Consider Razorwings instead. Why? Forget about Implosion missiles, their points cost is just nuts, they are not a game-changer and not worth their cost. Realistically, Necrotoxin and Shatterfields have just as much chance of doing significant damage, especially Shatterfield which are strong enough to hurt armour as well, and they can both be carried by the RW as well as the VR.

But, they are cheaper on the RW, for some reason.

Cheers.
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Aniasis
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts    DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts  I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 16 2011, 17:57

I though tyou need at least 5 Wracks before you could take a Liquifier?
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Tiri Rana
Sybarite
Tiri Rana


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PostSubject: Re: DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts    DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts  I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 16 2011, 21:44

First things first.
I personally don't like this kind of 'spam' lists, that consist of three times this and three times that, but that's just my opinion.


HQ:
Urien Rakarth
I don't think he brings much synergy into the list. Yes he can give furious charge to 1-3 wrack units, but with such small units, I don't see them achieve much. He himself wants to be in CC, because he has next to no protection from shooting and barely shooting attacks himself. But again, I don't see him work with small wrack units, since he is no combat monster per se and his clonefield needs primarily other bodies to protect him, since his 6+ isn't of any use.

Lady Malys
She's ok, IMHO. Just keep in mind, that she's not as tough as a normal archon.

Troops:
Wracks
As I said above, I think they are to few, to be of any use. As others said, they need either a transport or a WWP. And yes, Aniasis is right, 4 wracks can't take a liquifier, they have to be at least 5. (Unless you count the Acothyst as 5th, than it's ok) Additionally the hexrifle is no good addition. The Hexrifle is long ranged, the liquifier very short ranged; The liquifier is good against units, the hexrifle against single multi wound models. Besides that I think it is wasted points, if you get into CC. I'd either take 3 and a hexrifle and let them sit back and shoot, but that's bareley worth the points, or just leave the Hexrifle at home.

Fast Attack:
Scourges
I personally love scourges, but they are not able to shoulder the burden of being the biggest group on the table. They don't like to be assaulted and although they have a better armor than most of our units, they die pretty easy to shooting of any kind. Heatlances are good on reavers, even if I'd prefer blasters, but they are just to short ranged for scourges. Scourges inside of 9" around an armored target will die. Don't hope to save the heavy weapons for a second turn, if you reveal to your opponent, that this unit has 4 shots with a probability of over 50% to penetrate his precious AV12, he'll throw all AI at them, he can bring to bear, at least I'd do so. Haywire Blasters are better in regards of range and intimidation, since the chance to probably glance and improbably penetrate is unlikely to attract that much attention, but 4 of them is overkill in my eyes, since glances won't stack most of the time. Splinter cannons are a good AI choice, but you desperately need the AT firepower.

Heavy support:
Void Ravens
The problem here is, that everything that is at least cappable of AT will fire at it and even though it's AV11 almost everything can down it. With just three AT targets on the board they won't survive very long, but that is what you need of them. You need one turn for the necrotoxin missels, another turn for the shatterfield missles, another turn for the void mine and one to fire their void lances, so that's four turns to use all of it's weapons. Chances are high, that they won't survive two turns, so some of their potential is wasted. If you want to use them against infantry, take razorwings, because they are much cheaper and only loose the pretty useless mine, the redundant lances and one point of armor. If you want to use them against tanks, take ravagers. They again are much cheaper and better at AT fire.


The bottom line is that you probably should take more Troop mass and transports for them. Either gear the scourges against AI and take ravagers, or gear them against AT, take smaller units and take Razorwings, with 4 shatterfields or even keep the monoscythes and dissies.

P.S.:
What kind of tactic do you intend for your list, that would help a lot.
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Amoksuun
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PostSubject: Re: DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts    DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts  I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 02:34

kudos thanks for responding firstly it takes 10 points to turn a wrack into a acothyst so i can get access to the hexrifle,

secondly i intend to sort of abuse the aerial assault rule i did check out what others where ill be playing 40k. There stratagems all seem to either be frontal attacking armies or heavy psykers hence Lady Malys for the crystal heart.

the other problem i have atm is that there still deciding if the next 40k tornament is 2k or 2.5k for 2k i was intending to see if i can pick off people while doing a defensive crawl so to speak across the table.

for 2.5k bring in another 2 troop choices of the same squads of wracks an put them on venom's with additional splinter cannon an retrofire jets to be able to deepstrike them




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Darklight
Sybarite
Darklight


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PostSubject: Re: DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts    DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts  I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 06:44

Well if you are going to play a fun list, and not a competitive game, then sure there really isnt any reason to comment, since well, you play what you think is fun. But If you want to be competative, then you need to do alot of changes.

I take it as you want to be competative,

I think Tiri Rana got most of it right about the units.

We are all about the alpha strike, and you most likely wont get one with this army. They will just pick you apart. Without a transport, and spending to much points on units that really isnt competative.
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Tiri Rana
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Tiri Rana


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PostSubject: Re: DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts    DFA cloak an dagger style 1994pts  I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 23:01

Amoksuun wrote:
kudos thanks for responding firstly it takes 10 points to turn a wrack into a acothyst so i can get access to the hexrifle,

I don't get that, but maybe I missed something.

Amoksuun wrote:
secondly i intend to sort of abuse the aerial assault rule i did check out what others where ill be playing 40k. There stratagems all seem to either be frontal attacking armies or heavy psykers hence Lady Malys for the crystal heart.

I don't know, what you mean, by abuse the aerial assault rule, but consider abusing it with ravagers and razorwings. BTW Lady Malys makes only herself and an attached unit imune to psychic powers, so if you want to capitalize it, you need a better unit, than 5 wracks.

Amoksuun wrote:
the other problem i have atm is that there still deciding if the next 40k tornament is 2k or 2.5k for 2k i was intending to see if i can pick off people while doing a defensive crawl so to speak across the table.

Even if you can bring your wracks, damn expensive ICs and Scourges around the table, while keeping in cover and playing defensively, you can't pick anyone off, because if you hide your scourges, especially with heat lances, they won't hit anything. The wracks either assault or are slowly shot to pieces. The Voidravens on the other hand can't be hidden, because they are big and on a missive flying stand, and probably flashing red. And as it has a range of 36"-48" it will be in range of most longrange AT weapons, other armys use.

Amoksuun wrote:
for 2.5k bring in another 2 troop choices of the same squads of wracks an put them on venom's with additional splinter cannon an retrofire jets to be able to deepstrike them

If you want to play a deepstrike heavy army consider taking the Duke, but he'll work better with wyches, than with wracks. Who are pretty bad deepstrikers by the way, since they can't do anything after deepstriking, especially but not exclusively in combination with retrofire jets.
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