How do you actually run Reavers?

In a vacuum it certainly isn't worth it. But this is DE and we struggle to deal with armor. You said you didn't want to run Yanari, so I was just suggesting what works for me. The Wraithknight and Scatbikes are certainly better choices for dealing with most things, but those blasters can really do some work. Work out in your meta though.

PFP takes too long. I take shredders on every squad

Never was a shredder man, and PFP is what I strategize around. I will say I've had blasters pull my butt out of the fire before but I try not to rely on them.

amorrowlyday wrote:

PFP takes too long. I take shredders on every squad

I guess I don't see what one has to do with the other. As for PfP, you start getting a 6+ FNP from turn 2 on and become fearless end game when it really matters. I agree with @TeenageAngst on this one, it's something you can really plan your game around. Having a lone reaver stick on an objective and forcing it to get shot off is really good. If you roll scatterfield for the objective you a rocking a 2+ cover save with FnP, that's really good.

Nothing. Usually with my comments that seem nonsensical they are actually just displaced and if you trace back through the previous comments here you'll see the overarching points.

Point 1 I am deeply critical of PfP. And I will elaborate as to why at the end of this comment.

Point 2 "I take shredders on every squad" is a direct refutation of the previous standard option sets that were bandied about namely: naked, sybarite with grenade, and blaster respectively. Shredders are absolutely a viable addition especially in a Raider where They may actually be able to sit on an objective for a few turns.

Back to Point 1. 6+ FNP is absolutely useless because of when it happens. Anything that isn't hitting until turn 2 is either at least AP5 or S6, negating one of those 2 rolls on every non-coven unit in the army except for Scourges in one case and Reavers in the other and because you don't get anything until turn 2 Drop pod marines with even 1 flamer essentially autokill all non-coven PFP units in the army (barring scourges).

Legitimate CC units like Incubi, Reavers, and Grotesques do not generally make turn 4 charges, or turn 3 with a boost for that matter. Players either scoot them up the field in raiders For a turn 2 charge, or charge things that arrived in your backfield turn 1. In either case the unit is either heavily compromised or locked in combat by the time furious charge is obtained. Fearless doesn't matter for 2 reasons: non-covens Grotesques should always die before their character or are not taken, and all of our actual CC units (not wyches, bloodbrides, and Hellions) can and should be taken in units of 3, negating the 25% or less remaining scenario so we shouldn't ever have to worry about insane heroism. We don't get rage until turn 6 and by then it's useless for 2 reasons: We get significantly less attacks then we need at that point, and it is unlikely one will be able to turn back the momentum tide that is established from turns 2-4 at that point.

I go for extreme brevity because otherwise ^^^this^^^ happens and if you want to debate this with me in earnest my responses are going to get even longer and dependant on mathematics.

I mean you're entitled to that opinion but I'm speaking from personal experience. I say that PFP transforms my warriors from a line of shooting into a tarpit and my Mandrakes into gods of objective holding.

As are you. I don't tarpit with warriors since I almost always run CC heavy, and I don't run mandrakes because I prefer rangers. Our list compositions are likely either radically different or direct mirrors that fill psuedo-roles with different options (mandrakes vs rangers)

The fact you run Eldar with your Dark Eldar means we have very different lists I think. I usually go all in with one or the other.

Yep I've been running mixed from almost day 1. I mix the best rules I can for telling the aesthetic story I want. For instance I will not own wave serpents that arent the armourcast ones that look like sailboats. That leads to me having a specific slant to my purview but also means I inderstand a lot of specific niche interactions better than most because I'd had to calculate on it.