8e - Leaked rules

Or the person that made it was told Not to take certain items.

Very true ... But I feel with all they've given the imperial players they could have at least given us something that didn't look like what we played almost exclusively for the past few years, but we only have about 2 weeks before we get our hands on the book and can tear through it like the happy squealing little archons we are, looking for all the the small nuance's and dirty tricks that let us get an advantage over our opponents. Like Teenageangst I feel like it's gonna be bizonkers and dark eldar will finally be able to leave the kiddie playpen at tournaments and rise to the level of "we can do things!" That we have been screaming for from the thrones of our kabal towers. ... ... ... ... ... I really need to get my hands on the new rules before I go mad and exile myself in a desperate search for lady Malys ... Even though I'm pretty sure she isn't coming back ...

I've just read our index. I've got few observations to share.
Everything was written from the memory so mistakes could been made
tl;dl it seems really balanced with every unit viable but without any really big power boost.

-First of all we have to wait for the proper Codex, becouse it's just the basics. Minimum special rules for the units and without any special items except weapons.
-Forget what you know about points values. almost everything have a different cost maybe except Venoms.
-Vehicles with 10+ wounds and being less likely to blow up should really benefit our faction.
-FNP is like in 7th game turn based.
1: 6+ FNP
2:reroll run/charge
3:+1to hit but CC only
4:immune to battleshock
5: -1LD bubble for the opponent
-Combat drugs are about the same, but with +2 mov and +2 LD
-Poison - no suprises there, 4+/6+ against vehicles.
-Coven units have 5++
-Basic movement value for our infantry, including covenites seems to be 7'' Riders are faster than Venoms.
Units:
-Archon would be a cheap HQ filler. Even Bestmaster is more expensive O_o and new huskblade is a joke. His special boost is just use my LD or whatever.
-Haemonculus give +1t bubble but only for coven units.
-Succub seems about the same, I forget what she gives cult units, rerolls maybe. Archite Glaive is now +2s but -1 to hit
-Court are similiar I think to what we had in 7th.
-Warriors are 7 points.
-wyches are similiar but with 'no escape' rule.
-Incubi got reasonable price and the mandrakes seems really good With nice shooting attack, 5++ and Deep strike.
-beasts are looking interesting, high attack values and movement. Beastmaster let them use his LD and give to hit rerolls.
-Reavers are about twice as costly O_o Got second wound but losses all interesting abilities. Caltrops now activates only when the opponent is running away. Meh! Their turboboost is just straight 24'' now.
-Scourges are cheap and have that no scatter Deep Strike.
Haywire now damages vehicles on 4+ and deal 1 bonus mortal wound or D3 if you roll 6 to wound.
-Wracks and grots are about the same as they were. I was hoping on some more wounds for the G-Unit Haemoculus seems mandatory for the +1t now.
-Rider cost about two 7th ed Riders O_o you can mix passengers now (except Incubi) All have 5++.
-Ravager is now the same price as a Rider.
-Venoms should be gold. -1 to hit for the opponent and still you got this 5++. Obvoius upgrade for the splinter cannon is now free I think
-Flyers with more wounds seems really good now, But they are just -1 to hit for ground units. Minimum movement is 20'' now. Maximum depends on wounds left.
The Bomb is generating D6s for every model Voidraven will fly over (3d6 for monsters/vehicles) maximum is 10 dice. Then they will deal mortal wounds on 4+
-Taloi are cheaper but nerfed with only 6t/6s got 8'' movement but now could explode. The blast deals mortal wounds so can easly damage other taloi. Of course they got more wounds now.
-Cronos is more expensive than Talos and give no buffs I think. He is the damage dealer now.

Korwey wrote:

you can mix passengers now (except Incubi)

Why can't Incubi go in transports with other infantry?

Thanks for the information.

We knew Reavers would get slightly nerf, sucks their ability is trash now.

Incubi might have that rule but i'm 100% sure theyc an join with other incubi and inucbi based hq's

I was assuming Beasts and Hellions would get a nice boost looks like it.

Everything can DS no scatter if it has fly or teleport, Scourges will be a go to (many of use already had 1-2 units)

Good to see Haywire is still viable (sense vehicles will be everywhere now).

We've seen the raider costs they are 95pts GW showed us. So are you said Ravagers are 2x Raiders cost? something is mixed up here.

Bomber sounds amazing now, i hope these are true

Talos seems good as solo shock units, with 8" and many shots, they are the DE's "Distraction Carnifex" of 8th ed, even if they lost 1T they got 3 more wounds. Solo bombing them into units will be fun.

ABout Coven:
This is what i was expecting, 6+ with a 5++ is what i thought it be and Haemi giving them +1T is HUGE imo, T6 always Grots, T5 Wracks, Wracks might be stronger than Warriors now (2 Flamers or 2 Ossecfers) Rush in and melee, Poison on T5 dudes with 2 saves (abit not good but still 2) and PfP benefits them the most.

CurstAlchemist wrote:

Why can't Incubi go in transports with other infantry?

Special rule for Riders. I think that you may not be able to mix kabalites with cult or covenites either

amishprn86 - read again
Rider=Ravager=2xOldRider

Korwey wrote:

I've just read our index. I've got few observations to share.
Everything was written from the memory so mistakes could been made
tl;dl it seems really balanced with every unit viable but without any really big power boost.

-First of all we have to wait for the proper Codex, becouse it's just the basics. Minimum special rules for the units and without any special items except weapons.
-Forget what you know about points values. almost everything have a different cost maybe except Venoms.
-Vehicles with 10+ wounds and being less likely to blow up should really benefit our faction.
-FNP is like in 7th game turn based.
1: 6+ FNP
2:reroll run/charge
3:+1to hit but CC only
4:immune to battleshock
5: -1LD bubble for the opponent
-Combat drugs are about the same, but with +2 mov and +2 LD
-Poison - no suprises there, 4+/6+ against vehicles.
-Coven units have 5++
-Basic movement value for our infantry, including covenites seems to be 7'' Riders are faster than Venoms.
Units:
-Archon would be a cheap HQ filler. Even Bestmaster is more expensive O_o and new huskblade is a joke. His special boost is just use my LD or whatever.
-Haemonculus give +1t bubble but only for coven units.
-Succub seems about the same, I forget what she gives cult units, rerolls maybe. Archite Glaive is now +2s but -1 to hit
-Court are similiar I think to what we had in 7th.
-Warriors are 7 points.
-wyches are similiar but with 'no escape' rule.
-Incubi got reasonable price and the mandrakes seems really good With nice shooting attack, 5++ and Deep strike.
-beasts are looking interesting, high attack values and movement. Beastmaster let them use his LD and give to hit rerolls.
-Reavers are about twice as costly O_o Got second wound but losses all interesting abilities. Caltrops now activates only when the opponent is running away. Meh! Their turboboost is just straight 24'' now.
-Scourges are cheap and have that no scatter Deep Strike.
Haywire now damages vehicles on 4+ and deal 1 bonus mortal wound or D3 if you roll 6 to wound.
-Wracks and grots are about the same as they were. I was hoping on some more wounds for the G-Unit Haemoculus seems mandatory for the +1t now.
-Rider cost about two 7th ed Riders O_o you can mix passengers now (except Incubi) All have 5++.
-Ravager is now the same price as a Rider.
-Venoms should be gold. -1 to hit for the opponent and still you got this 5++. Obvoius upgrade for the splinter cannon is now free I think
-Flyers with more wounds seems really good now, But they are just -1 to hit for ground units. Minimum movement is 20'' now. Maximum depends on wounds left.
The Bomb is generating D6s for every model Voidraven will fly over (3d6 for monsters/vehicles) maximum is 10 dice. Then they will deal mortal wounds on 4+
-Taloi are cheaper but nerfed with only 6t/6s got 8'' movement but now could explode. The blast deals mortal wounds so can easly damage other taloi. Of course they got more wounds now.
-Cronos is more expensive than Talos and give no buffs I think. He is the damage dealer now.

Well, I guess I'm holding out for Corsairs now.

Also if we get Re-roll charges on turn 3, we could be the king of Beta turn3 strike.

DS 500-700pts Turn 3 charge with everything reroll charges and 1's in CC then on their turn (if we went 2nd) turn 4 we will have immune to Battleshock

Shredder:

The Shredder wrote:

Well, I guess I'm holding out for Corsairs now.

Yeah i cant wait for Corsairs honestly, i kinda like them (with my DE models i'm converting like 5k points of my 15k to Corsairs) much more, unless they F' them up.

PS the worst part is.... no more HQ's. no baron, no vect, no nothing.

The reavers might not be that bad. 2 wounds make them survivable in overwatch, meaning bands of three are survivable. If caltrops have a powerful stat, it would mean that fireline wielding armies might think twice before falling back, leaving front line ready to be recharged by other cc groups.

Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:

The reavers might not be that bad. 2 wounds make them survivable in overwatch, meaning bands of three are survivable. If caltrops have a powerful stat, it would mean that fireline wielding armies might think twice before falling back, leaving front line ready to be recharged by other cc groups.

It's hard to say anything since every faction and core rules are redone.
The Caltrops are dealing D3 mortal wounds if I'm not mistaken but the bladevanes, main CC weapon are just plain ap-1 D1 :/

Korwey wrote:

Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:

The reavers might not be that bad. 2 wounds make them survivable in overwatch, meaning bands of three are survivable. If caltrops have a powerful stat, it would mean that fireline wielding armies might think twice before falling back, leaving front line ready to be recharged by other cc groups.

It's hard to say anything since every faction and core rules are redone.
The Caltrops are dealing D3 mortal wounds if I'm not mistaken but the bladevanes, main CC weapon are just plain ap-1 D1 :/

Im hoping the rules are miss read and its "when we charge in combat" like old HoW, AOS BloodCrushers has D3 mortal wounds when they charge. Im sure its teh same for Reavers.

But why should they fall back if you just attack with 3 reavers? I would say, stay locked in combat and go for it.

So we basically need:

More warriors. Those are still great and considering the price of raiders, we could do a foot slogging army.
Or we put them into Venoms. So no big change here.

Hellions: Depp strike and attack is nice. Now I´m glad I didn´t buy Gangs of Commorragh.

Grotesques with a nearby Haemonculus. No Surprise here.

Ravagers.

Incubbi maybe.

Mandrakes (I will continue to build mine from the vampire counts spirit hosts)

Scourges. No Surprise here.

Maybe the bomber (How does it count what model you flew over? The entire unit? Just everything on a thin line?)

I think its per unit not model.

So let´s say we fly over a unit of 5 dudes, they get 5D6 with 4+ mortal wounds and if we also fly over a monster it gets an additional 3D6 and the next unit gets only 2D6 (the remaining ones)?

amishprn86 wrote:

Incubi might have that rule but i'm 100% sure theyc an join with other incubi and inucbi based hq's

Haha, so mercenaries who are historically known to be hired as bodyguards can't ride with their employers.

I can see the new fluff "When acting as bodyguards to an Archon, the Incubi will surround their master in an impenetrable ring of flickering blades, the Archon pacing calmly through the fiercest melee as if in the eye of a blood-slick storm. But will never demean themselves but boarding a transport with anyone other than Drazhar."

CptMetal wrote:

Painjunky wrote:

Massaen wrote:

Considering the increase in points - rhino is 70+ points, drop pod is 105!

This makes think raiders and venoms will cost a lot more in 8th.

Maybe 100pts for a raider with DL and something cool like shock prow and/or racks.

You were spot on!
Are you a wizard?

Nailed it!


If reavers suck (I own 24 and they are my favorite unit by far) I'm switching to corsairs or CSM.

amishprn86 wrote:

Yeah i cant wait for Corsairs honestly, i kinda like them (with my DE models i'm converting like 5k points of my 15k to Corsairs) much more, unless they F' them up.

That is certainly a concern. I'm especially worried that Princes will lose all their Paths, which was one of my favourite things about them in 7th. It would be doubly annoying given that my favourite path (Survivor of Endless Darkness) would actually be really good in 8th.

Oh well, I'll just have to hope that Forge World remain at least mildly competent.

amishprn86 wrote:

PS the worst part is.... no more HQ's. no baron, no vect, no nothing.

Sigh. Of course. I guess GW felt we were already spoilt for choice in that department.  

Anyway, I wanted to go through this stuff in more detail (my responses in red):

Korwey wrote:

-Forget what you know about points values. almost everything have a different cost maybe except Venoms.
-Vehicles with 10+ wounds and being less likely to blow up should really benefit our faction. How many wounds do ours have?
-FNP is like in 7th game turn based.
1: 6+ FNP
2:reroll run/charge
3:+1to hit but CC only
4:immune to battleshock
5: -1LD bubble for the opponent
This PfP chart is a big plate of bullshit and chips.
-Combat drugs are about the same, but with +2 mov and +2 LD Still full of useless results then.
-Poison - no suprises there, 4+/6+ against vehicles. Given that other races now have a much easier time wounding high-toughness units, poison almost seems like a detriment now. I'd much rather have weapons with decent strength values.
-Coven units have 5++ I assume this is FNP and not an invulnerable save? If so,
is it improved at all by the PfP chart?
-Basic movement value for our infantry, including covenites seems to be 7'' I look forward to not using any of our melee infantry.Riders are faster than Venoms.
Units:
-Archon would be a cheap HQ filler. Even Bestmaster is more expensive O_o and new huskblade is a joke. His special boost is just use my LD or whatever. See, given how awful he was in 7th, I thought that the Archon could only improve in 8th. Glad GW decided to prove me wrong. At this rate I'm going to need to buy another shelf just to accommodate all the units that will never see play.
-Haemonculus give +1t bubble but only for coven units. For a moment there,
I thought one of our HQs was genuinely good. Nevermind.
-Succub seems about the same, I forget what she gives cult units, rerolls maybe. Archite Glaive is now +2s but -1 to hit HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I guess GW's ambition is to not sell a single DE model in 8th.
-Court are similiar I think to what we had in 7th.
-Warriors are 7 points. This is the first thing in all of this that remotely resembles good news.
-wyches are similiar but with 'no escape' rule. I've yet to see anything that would even make me consider using these.
-Incubi got reasonable price I'll be the judge of that.   and the mandrakes seems really good With nice shooting attack, 5++ and Deep strike. Assuming you're right that's, what, 2 decent units so far?
-beasts are looking interesting, high attack values and movement. Beastmaster let them use his LD and give to hit rerolls. Have Beastmasters overthrown Archons on Commorragh?
-Reavers are about twice as costly O_o Of course they are.Got second wound but losses all interesting abilities. Caltrops now activates only when the opponent is running away. Meh! Their turboboost is just straight 24'' now. It seems my earlier speculations were incorrect - our bike melee units are going to be every bit as crap as our infantry ones.
-Scourges are cheap and have that no scatter Deep Strike. I guess they can at least fire their heavy weapons after moving now.
Haywire now damages vehicles on 4+ and deal 1 bonus mortal wound or D3 if you roll 6 to wound.Shockingly (hah!) that actually doesn't sound too bad.
-Wracks and grots are about the same as they were. So Wracks are still garbage and Grots are going to be buggered by new transport rules and anything with Multiple Wounds.I was hoping on some more wounds for the G-Unit Haemoculus seems mandatory for the +1t now.
-Rider cost about two 7th ed Riders O_o you can mix passengers now (except Incubi) All have 5++.
-Ravager is now the same price as a Rider. The price of Raiders confuses me.
-Venoms should be gold. -1 to hit for the opponent and still you got this 5++. Obvoius upgrade for the splinter cannon is now free I think Another piece of good news. Too little,
too late, I'm afraid.
-Flyers with more wounds seems really good now, But they are just -1 to hit for ground units. Good. I don't want shooting at flyers to have worse odds than the lottery.Minimum movement is 20'' now. Maximum depends on wounds left.
The Bomb is generating D6s for every model Voidraven will fly over (3d6 for monsters/vehicles) maximum is 10 dice. Then they will deal mortal wounds on 4+
-Taloi are cheaper but nerfed with only 6t/6s Well this seems like a necessary nerf. got 8'' movement but now could explode. I beg your pardon? The blast deals mortal wounds so can easly damage other taloi. Of course they got more wounds now.
-Cronos is more expensive than Talos and give no buffs I think. He is the damage dealer now. I . . . er . . . what?

In summary, to those who said DE could only improve in 8th, it's looking like GW have done their best to prove you wrong.

I think we improved, I actually like the new PfP chart, remember we always get FnP no matter what now and i think they are trying for 1-2 turns of shooting and 1-2 turns of melee, if that is the case then the rest of the PfP will benefit us more.

Looking at SM and other leaks, our points stayed the same where others has gone up 10-15% over all, and some armies got some heavy unit nerfs (Tau and SM) yes they got some boosts in other areas, but Drop pods are way nerf, Ghostkiels are as well, Tau got large points adjustments also.

Over all its not just us in a vacuum but everything.

doriii wrote:

doesnt every tau unit have like a gazillion guns that can all shoot at different targets 8th ed. they used to overkill raider or msu, now they can take on many more units at a time

We have no way to get higher BS. Most armies seem to have ways to give us -1 BS so most of our army will be hitting on a 4+ at best and likely a 5+.... fear the mighty Tau who suddenly have stormtrooper accuracy.

A HHR team of 3 gets 6 str 8 shots -4 at 5+ to hit with a debuff and it takes us 5 ML hits to get that BS back to 4+ so that means an entire expensive frail 10 man Pathfinder squad is needed. As soon as they lose one guy the odds of us getting the 5 hits for +1 to hit drops fairly significantly.

Drones are an option too but then you need to keep a guy close to the, with the drone controller which is expensive and also he is frail and able to be nuked and the drones are still only BS 4+ every time I see enemy army rules I just can't think of any way the Tau could win once people figure out to spam - 1 BS stuff everywhere.

Since it is specifically a -1 BS the rule gives out and not a cover bonus our ML charts lower effect has no use against these abilities.

So expect the majority of shooting to be 4+ to 5 +.

Everyone's army now has a gazillion guns who can move and shoot. Not unique to us anymore. ALl of our costs relative to the old edition have gone way up as well. Our accuracy has gone to the dumpster too. I can't see the Tau as being anything but a low tier dex in 8th or worse.

amishprn86 wrote:

I think we improved, I actually like the new PfP chart, remember we always get FnP no matter what now and i think they are trying for 1-2 turns of shooting and 1-2 turns of melee, if that is the case then the rest of the PfP will benefit us more.

We get FNP turn 1, but it's so weak as to be virtually meaningless. Especially since we have very few units that are difficult to wound in the first place.

amishprn86 wrote:

Looking at SM and other leaks, our points stayed the same where others has gone up 10-15% over all, and some armies got some heavy unit nerfs (Tau and SM) yes they got some boosts in other areas, but Drop pods are way nerf, Ghostkiels are as well, Tau got large points adjustments also.

Some of our stuff has stayed the same, but a lot has also gotten considerably more expensive. What's more, many of our units have actually had significant nerfs - including many that were already bad.

amishprn86 wrote:

Over all its not just us in a vacuum but everything.

Sure. But you also have to look at what we lost. We've gone from striking first against about 90% of units to striking last against anything that charges us (and our infantry are a mere inch faster than marines). We were reliant on our transports to get our melee units into battle, but now that too has been stopped.

Maybe we gained a bit more than we lost overall, but I'm seeing nothing here that will improve the variety of DE armies. It looks like most of the good units stayed about the same or get better, whilst most of the bad or mediocre units either stayed the same or actually got worse.

I mean, were Succibi so overpowered in 7th that they needed to not only lose their initiative bonus but also get a penalty to hit with their only worthwhile weapon? Was S7/T7 on the Talos overpowered even with the changes to the to-wound chart?

https://www.instagram.com/canhammer_yt/

Yep pfp is per turn... WTF

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Do keep in mind that these rules are only the hold overs until we get a real Codex. It will be interesting to see in the future how the index rules reflect that Codex when the time comes (though I personally don't have any hope it will do us any real favors unless they have some shiny new kits to market).