Full rules and all Indexes

The succubus doesnt look weak, imo. The buff she gives to wyches is a gamechanger for them, and with wl traits she can give them a ld buff. We will probably get more wl gear when our codex drops, meanwhile this index is a placeholder, so dont loos hope yet. Defeatism never wins wars.

Massaen wrote:

Its a whole new game... I wish people would remember that...

Yeah. I'm stoked. I thought 7th was nearly unplayable. So poorly designed. And no clue for balance. Every new edition sees the sky falling. I'm actually looking forward to playing again. First time in at least a year and a half.

Just bide your time Massaen, soon they will accept their grief and look for ways to abuse the new rules. its only a matter of time.

example: I'm going to start up a thread about it in the rules discussion but Lelith has multiple attacks, multiple weapons, go read the new rules for choosing a melee weapon in the fight phase.

Aww man, Falcons and Fire Prisms are faster than a Raider

Barrywise wrote:

I'm going to start up a thread about it in the rules discussion but Lelith has multiple attacks, multiple weapons, go read the new rules for choosing a melee weapon in the fight phase.

Not sure what you're getting at there. You have to pick which weapon to use with each attack. It's not like the shooting rules where you can shoot with all your weapons.

Count - isn't every attack made by the model 'unique' - as in it's resolved on its own? In this case, I'm reading Lelith as:
2 hair whip thingies
1 penetrating blades
*then* her normal 4 attacks using any of her melee weapons

Is that not right? 7 total attacks base?

nerdelemental wrote:

Count - isn't every attack made by the model 'unique' - as in it's resolved on its own? In this case, I'm reading Lelith as:
2 hair whip thingies
1 penetrating blades
*then* her normal 4 attacks using any of her melee weapons

Is that not right? 7 total attacks base?

I'm pretty sure the base attacks are supposed to me made with one of her melee weapons.

Right. rules are confusing, thread open to discuss rules in the proper area, sorry for derail.

I am starting to get a little excited at the smaller possibilities...here me out.

After looking over the units stats over and over again...it's the drugs and slight buffs from our HQ's who come in much cheaper than they did before that have me thinking this could be great.

1. Reaver Jetbikes at T4 with W2 could be pretty hard to get rid of if you chose the +1T drug for them. That gives you a T5 W2 very fast unit. I am really liking the Heat Lance on these to take care of independent characters.

2. Wyches at 10 models strong can take 3 gladiator weapons and each of those weapons has an ideal target. Against high toughness take the gauntlets, against high wounds take the impalers and against weaker massed units take the razor flails...I like the variety in that. Then you apply the drugs and it gets even better with +1A or +1S both being useful but when you use these in conjunction with the weapon load out you can end up with a pretty decent unit that is customisable and fun to play with. NOT AMAZING but very versatile.

3. Cheap unit of Wracks escorting a cheap Haemonculus as one of your HQ choices…Wracks will be T5 meaning most infantry including most marines only wound on a 5+.

4. Mandrakes are interesting because I have never used them before. They can deepstrike deploy 9” from an enemy model. 10 baleblast shots at S4 -1AP causing mortal wounds on a 6…that’s very good. Then assuming they get the charge and are not wiped out in overwatch they could be making up to 21 attacks in CC striking first at S4. If you pick your target correctly you should wipe it out.


There are things I am gutted about...

1. Raider T5 is very disappointing when compared with our poison weapons ability. We will wound weak vehicles on a 6 and almost everything will wound our Raiders on a 5+.

2. Incubi yet again while looking ok stats wise seem dull as F**K. They just don't get enough attention special rules wise. These guys should be hardcore badass...but are they?

3. At first glance the Talos doesn't seem deadly enough...I need to look at this one again.

I was also confused about Lelith but the rules read different for each attack.

P.Blade says "a model armed with this can make +1 attack when it fights with them".

Barbs and Hooks says "when the bearer fights in can make 2 additional attacks with this weapon.

So i read that as 4 base attacks with the blades +1 extra with the blades with the 2 additional attacks with the barbs and hooks.

The Shredder wrote:

nerdelemental wrote:

Count - isn't every attack made by the model 'unique' - as in it's resolved on its own? In this case, I'm reading Lelith as:
2 hair whip thingies
1 penetrating blades
*then* her normal 4 attacks using any of her melee weapons

Is that not right? 7 total attacks base?

I'm pretty sure the base attacks are supposed to me made with one of her melee weapons.

Yeah. What else would they be made with?

If I'm reading it right the Archon basically gives a 2+ invuln to his sslyth?.

It says if he suffers a wound on a 2+ he doesn't take the wound and a sslyth takes a mortal wound instead.

I mean he doesn't suffer a wound until he fails his save right?

Edit he still loses the invuln whether he takes the wound or not. Dang.

I guess it will be age of darklight. All those whacky strange weapons like heatlance, haywires etc looks really not optimal.

Scourges with 4x Blasters looks way to go. Guaranteed dark light shot that punch thtough cover and armor and getting at least 3+ in cover.

Trueborn with Dark Lances in Venoms looks way to go.

Melee from Raiders is very strange and i cant wrap my head how to set up charge. Helions and a bit of Reavers seems way better, and they will utilise cover much better.

All on all i think we must make Darklight Spam from as many sources as possible and not fo melee too much. Alpha-strike.

Don't forget about Power from Pain on those Incubi. When that +1 to hit in CC comes in we'll be blasting apart marines left and right with the incubi. from a squad of 5, we'll have 16 attacks coming in:

16 (4/6) (1/2) (5/6) <- # of attacks, 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound, 6+ Space Marine armor save. leaves us at 4.44 dead, 5.55 when we get the +1 to hit


Yeah, I can't make heads nor tails of that talos, unless the monster keyword gives it some special rule, I highly doubt that it'll be used much.

Maybe with it's D2, it'll be a primaris marine hunter? or those chain flails reroll to wound against vehicles and high toughness will be useful. It's at a weird middle ground of not being overly effective at anything, although it might be really good at cracking open rhinos, if it can catch them.

Also, all the squad leaders are free. That instantly make special choices for them cheaper. If you stick that power sword or something on a sybarite - it will ot on 2+ after turn 3, nice to finish off stuff, as there is no longer restrictions on charge after rapid fire or terrain.

A few things I've noticed:

Wyches can be taken in units of 20 now instead of 15. You can go wide and try and trap as many units in combat as you can.

Talos seems to have taken a hit, but we've all noticed that one.

Harlequins seem really really good to me now! 4+ invuln
vehicles are -1 to hit (-2 if you use a psyker power)
Harlequins have 2 HQ's now (Troupe Master and Shadow Seer)
Increase in Wounds for most models (everything except for troupes)
Improved weapon profiles (star bolas are not 1 use only, fusion pistol is worth it now, caress/embrace/kiss all seem viable in their own ways)

As excited as I am for my DE, I'm even more excited for Harlequins!

The Ynnari soulburst is still in there and still does the same thing.

Balance!

So, if I understand this correctly:
- The Raider is actually 115pts with a Dark Lance or 125pts with a Disintegrator.
- The Venom is actually 95pts with 2 Splinter Cannons.
- The Ravager is actually 155pts if you take 3 Dark Lances or 185pts if you take 3 Disintegrators.

(I mention this because I've seen people say, for example, that the Venom's cost remained unchanged - which seemed rather misleading.)

Correct, but venoms can still fire 12 shots from 18" because each rapid fire stat is doubled

Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:

Correct, but venoms can still fire 12 shots from 18" because each rapid fire stat is doubled

That's true, but range was one of the Venom's major advantages. 18" puts it in range of a lot of nasty weapons.

The Shredder wrote:

So, if I understand this correctly:
- The Raider is actually 115pts with a Dark Lance or 125pts with a Disintegrator.
- The Venom is actually 95pts with 2 Splinter Cannons.
- The Ravager is actually 155pts if you take 3 Dark Lances or 185pts if you take 3 Disintegrators.

(I mention this because I've seen people say, for example, that the Venom's cost remained unchanged - which seemed rather misleading.)

they say that units come built with weapons into their points. This is a little unclear because a ravager is 95 and they say it comes with 3 DL.

We need a FAQ for those leaks!

Maybe. In my experience, my venoms never stay out of range for long anyway, since I had to move it in blaster range. I will use them as a blaster/ bloodbride delivery system now.

doriii wrote:

they say that units come built with weapons into their points. This is a little unclear because a ravager is 95 and they say it comes with 3 DL.

It says under points that they don't include the points for wargear, but that seems a really bizarre way of doing things if means you have to add the default wargear onto the base price.

I was looking at the Necron leaks earlier. Destroyers are ~40pts, but their weapons seem to be an additional 20pts. However, they cannot change their weapons in any way, so I don't understand the point of doing them separately.

But now it´s time to get more mandrakes and start a foot slogging horde army.
Get Hellions and Mandrakes as a backup and pack those Kabalite Warriors full of Dark Lances and you´re good to go.
EDIT: And Scourges! And True born with lances!
Maybe get some beastmasters and pack up with beasts of your choice.

If we play it like that, we save points in vehicles, and there isn´t an approriate target for enemy lascanons and stuff like that anymore. We can fill more slots and grab more command points.
Too bad, always liked vehicle storm. Seems as if I need half a dozen Kabalite Warrior boxes.


Anybody notice that the court of the archon now also consists of characters, that can ony be shot if they are the closest visible enemy? And that the Sslyth acts like a bodyguard?

@The Shredder they did the points seperately, to be able to adjust those later on. They explicitely stated, that those values will be adjusted in the future after looking at tournaments.
And they keep it seperately with all units, to be consistent.

CptMetal wrote:

But now it´s time to get more mandrakes and start a foot slogging horde army.
Get Hellions and Mandrakes as a backup and pack those Kabalite Warriors full of Dark Lances and you´re good to go.
EDIT: And Scourges! And True born with lances!
Maybe get some beastmasters and pack up with beasts of your choice.

If we play it like that, we save points in vehicles, and there isn´t an approriate target for enemy lascanons and stuff like that anymore. We can fill more slots and grab more command points.
Too bad, always liked vehicle storm. Seems as if I need half a dozen Kabalite Warrior boxes.

Are you sure you wouldn't rather play Imperial Guard?