Codex possibilities

www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/16/codex-space-marines-your-first-lookgw-homepage-post-1/
The first look at the Space Marine codex has me thinking, if GW really want to keep the game "balanced" as they say. With the kind of power the space Marine codex is holding, what will ours possibly hold? Certainly there will be new units, warlord traits, and stratagems and the look at the Raven Guard
www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/17/chapter-focus-raven-guard-july17gw-homepage-post-3/
Has me thinking that out WWP will more then likely become a stratagem that we get to use before the battle it also has me wondering if the Kabals, Wych Cults, and the Haemunculous Covens will have their own unique stratagems. But that possibly leaves the incubi and Mandrake's out of the "new cool stuff". What are your thoughts and guesses at the make-up of our "soon to be released" ( in like a year or so) codex?

Well, judging by Raven guard rules (army wide -1 to hit if more then 12 away) ignore overwatch, mass deepstrike. Armies with the codex will be much more powerfull then armies without one. When codex will come out - you will have to buy it.

GW didnt reset it to keep it balanced, they just resetted to start powercreep anew.

Keep in mind that they can´t deep strike more than half the army anyway.
If they spend CP or buy a Drop pod is kind of irrelevant at this point.

The -1 to hit is what really makes them tough. Power armour AND hard to hit. Damn. We need to get close.

I hope my chaos legions will get this treatment too.

Azdrubael wrote:

 ignore overwatch, mass deepstrike.

Overwatch always hit's on 6+ and ignores modifications. The "mass deepstrike" is a stratagem and will force you to spend command points. (I assume it will be 1-2 per unit)

edit: Deepstriking 9'' to you at the start of the game and -1 to hit for being 12'' away is kind of a nonbo tbh. (inbefore every waac player playes shooty ravenguard soon)

'Strike From the Shadows' lets you spend command points to basically give any unit the equivalent of the old rule "infiltrate", since you have to 'deep strike' the units before the game starts.
It is pretty strong and fluffy, so expect our webway to be a weaker, watered down and costlier version of this.

A raven guard specific Warlord Trait, called Silent Stalker is stated to cancel out overwatch, but the article does not mention if it is for specific units, army wide or just for the warlord. I suspect it is only for the warlord since they mention pairing it up with a souped up chapter relic jump pack to go hunt characters.

I hope we get strategems not to buff ourselves, but to debuff the enemy.

Scrz wrote:

A raven guard specific Warlord Trait, called Silent Stalker is stated to cancel out overwatch

Oh wow I missed that sorry. I'm with you that it's most likely for the warlord only tho.

Overwatch will be a thing of the past with this new look at the White Scars!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/chapter-focus-white-scars-july18gw-homepage-post-3/
Their speed is also unmatched by any (except the true kin as we are in all instances supposed to the fastest army!) ... Yeah the space Marines are going to enjoy the top slot for a while I think until everyone's codex comes out ... Then they might actually have to put in a small amount of effort to stay there ... However, this situation means very little to the true kin as we have learned how to be sneaky and out manuever our opponent to still win ... Even with the odds against us. Commorragh will triumph in the end.

Maybe we won't just get 3 sets of traits. Maybe due to the faction split from the Ynnari we will get malys centered rules, vect centered rules, a couple haemonc rules and wych rules and maybe they expand on the mandrakes with kheredruakh as a proper hq since they own most of commorragh now and have moved into the prime real estate after the crap storm of demons came and ruined the best party in the galaxy

PFI wrote:

Maybe we won't just get 3 sets of traits. Maybe due to the faction split from the Ynnari we will get malys centered rules, vect centered rules, a couple haemonc rules and wych rules and maybe they expand on the mandrakes with kheredruakh as a proper hq since they own most of commorragh now and have moved into the prime real estate after the crap storm of demons came and ruined the best party in the galaxy

I think this is very hopefull.
We will not get rules for different kabals or different wych cults or different covens. We probably might get something, but I fear we will not get the huge boost the chapter tactics give the manrines. We are not the one true love of GW, thus we will get shuffled into a small burned out broken webway without much flavourfull rules.

Azdrubael wrote:

GW didnt reset it to keep it balanced, they just resetted to start powercreep anew.

Wouldn't making any army that is released after the first weaker mean the power is creeping backwards now?


As far as the "beta" rules from the Indices go, it's actually not looking too bad for us right now. Recently I saw a battle report where a Dark Eldar gunboat list really messed up a Craftworld bike spam list (given, they had a Tantalus).

Scrz wrote:

'Strike From the Shadows' lets you spend command points to basically give any unit the equivalent of the old rule "infiltrate", since you have to 'deep strike' the units before the game starts.
It is pretty strong and fluffy, so expect our webway to be a weaker, watered down and costlier version of this.

I would expect a Webway Portal strategem to allow a unit to "deepstrike" that normally can't. At the start of your round, not durring deployment. So, basically what it did before, except not as an item.

Maybe we get trolled and our stratagem is just reroll wounds of a 1 for a unit's poisoned weapons

Speed to much for you? The shadows to dark? Would you like to burn the heretic, mutant, and xenos? Then come take a look at the Salamander Space Marines!!!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/19/chapter-focus-salamanders-july19gw-homepage-post-3/
While the chapter tactic seems to be underwhelming at first let us win you over instead with the claims of the strongest units in the book and the toughest characters in the galaxy, these puppies can be kitted out to be just as tough as papa nurgles marines! And for those that didn't like speed, well if you don't move you get to fire twice! Join the Salamanders and watch the galaxy burn while you stand still!
(Thankfully that toughness doesn't matter to us, hurray poison!!!)

You tired of your weak flesh, is you ultimate goal to become a machine? You could go join the cult mechanics on Mars or you could become an Iron Hands Space Marine!
www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/20/chapter-focus-iron-hands-july20gw-homepage-post-3/
They have stripped themselves of the weak flesh so much so that even the vehicles are immune to pain! Not even the mortalest of wounds can penetrate that armor and cyber flesh. They even boast of stratagems that let's their vehicles move and shoot without penalty to heavy weapons. This is going to be a fun chapter to fight.

You mean they try to be like uss but with to much armour on?

Yes ... The chapter tactics all seem to be a variation on the pfp table ... Except for the imperial fists ... Speaking of which.

Tired of using those cumbersome heavy weapons? Would you rather use the trust bolter or just charge the enemy head on? Then here are the space Marine chapters for you!
www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/21/chapter-focus-the-imperial-fists-crimson-fists-and-black-templars-july21gw-homepage-post-3/
The imperial fists love the bolter and would chose bolt weapons above anything else. They also get the option to ignore any cover you could possibly find, from a cardboard box to a very thick concrete wall. And the aura of their leader makes those pesky ap-1 weapons act like a normal weapon as he gives a +1 to the armor save against any ap-1 weapon. The crimson fists get (gasp) an actual crimson fist! And apparently use the same tactics as the imperial fists but their leader gives them additional attacks, and rerolls to hit, from the sounds of it in both shooting and cc.
The Black Templar would rather toss aside their bolt guns and charge the enemy with knives and other cc weapons, this is made easier by the chapter tactic they come equiped with that let's them reroll charge distance. Also, have you ever wanted to have a 24" bubble of "NOPE" for psychic powers by using just force of will? Well the Templar have that as a stratagem! Any psychic powers cast within 24" of a unit Black Templar is denied on a 4+ roll! So by shear force of will, and absolutely not psychic mastery, they can stop a farseer on the other side of the battlefield from guiding a group of guardians!

On a side note, back when I started I wanted to make ablack Templar army ... But after seeing the attitudes of the space Marine players in the area i started playing in it turned me off to space Marines in general ... And just the sheer amount of people that played on variation of space Marine or other ... Eh ... I took up dark eldar because noone was playing them, I was the first in the area. And have loves them ever since. I take pleasure in beating space Marines and so do the Archon that command my army.

Based on some designer's notes that natfka ok ut up on his site, it seems that Codexes are going to feature the current GW range. This could mean a few things, like Urien and Drahzar possibly getting updated or phased out ( A la Baron and Duke). Thoughts?

Quote :

like Urien and Drahzar possibly getting updated or phased out

Jain Zar hasn't been updated in well..ever..decades at least. I doubt we'll be getting anything new, but I don't think our two little sociopaths are going anywhere.

It's a shame about Baron and the Duke. Are they even considered canonical at this point by GW?

Yes. There's been no fluff to retconn them at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if we see one of them mentioned in the BL before too much longer, either.

I hope they don't go anywhere, but the rifleman dreadnought is gone now and GW stated that they won't be putting things into Codexes that aren't in the range. We can still use them from the indices, but still...

That would mean that aside from I think eldrad, and the ynnari faction, all the named Aelidari characters, CW and true kin, would go away as they are all fine cast and not currently part of the GW plastic line ... Because laziness in most rules writing and non existent sales of the fine cast models they were never given a plastic kit ... however if they rid us of them they would have to put in place plastic replacements of those hq's or hell would break loose for GW as the Aelidari player base basically walk into GW and either virtually or literally flip the production and writer teams tables over and cause havoc for depleting our options of fun themes and story even further. While giving space Marine players the exact opposite in that they can spend command points to make their own made up space Marine person their chapter master ... Who, by no means, is part of the GW supported line, as Chapter Master - Gavorian Krass (or some other made up name ) definitely does not have an actual model. ... ... ... ... ... Alright the last little bit was ranting ... But honestly I think we won't lose the named characters we have ... If anything this will probably give them their much wanted plastic kits...

I agree, that was what I was really trying to say, anyway. Woot possible new kits. Incubi, especially.

The only dread I have is a rifleman, that I customized specifically because I loved the look of guns akimbo on a dread. I do hope they will keep the index entries valid and allow people to use both at the same time. If they force people that want to use index entries to build your army solely from the index and miss out on all the tasty gear, chapter tactics and strategems in the codex, that is the same as invalidating the index as far as I am concerned.
Not the end of the world, but a little bit annoying.

Ob-sec is back for tacticals though. So I expect that is going to be a thing for all troops eventually.
That should make warrior spam even better. Better double those points GW!

I'm fairly sure they've already said you can use things like riflemen by using the index (not codex) datasheets and adjusting with the latest point values where applicable.