Dealing with Psyker-heavy armies

Sybarite Posts : 254 Join date : 2017-10-23

Hello all, first time poster and I'm looking for your insight! I recently was wrecked by a psyker-heavy Tyranid army...really brought to light something I feared going into 8th edition, which can be summed at as:

1) Manifesting smite and, really, most psyker powers is insanely easy
2) The chance of incurring a "Perils of the Wrap" is very small
3) Even if Perils of the Warp is rolled...you're looking at 3 wounds total for the caster, which in most cases is nothing
4) Dark Eldar simply have to sit there and take it in the psychic phase (i.e. no abilities limiting psykers' potential for manifesting powers)

How have others combated this in 8th edition? The friend I played against brought seven Hive Tyrants to a 2,000pt battle; meaning he closed the gap on turn 1 (limiting my maneuverability) very quickly and wiped three units off the board in the psychic phase alone.

Additionally, is anyone holding out hope this may be an item addressed in the upcoming DE codex?

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: I realize I could go the Ynnari route; however, I'm primarily interested in sticking with Dark Eldar only!

Wych Posts : 686 Join date : 2016-05-20

7 tyrants? Cheesey

I’d suggest razor wing flicks or kabalites as bubble wrap, keep his smites and charges off you.

Wych Posts : 571 Join date : 2017-03-20 Location : Perth

The only 'defence' we have is that of the Haemonculi's Crucible of Malediction, which does nothing for actual defence and is a very plinky and innefective deterrent to Psykers.

Moreso, it's easy to avoid given its paltry range in comparison to the range of the psychic powers its trying to counter.

My only suggestions for you are as follows: Minimise your drops by shoving EVERYTHING YOU CAN in a transport, this also grants you an extra layer of defence against psychic powers whilst still allowing you to shoot; What isn't in a transport should be Scourges with Darklances that are kept in reserves.

Turn 1 drop the Darklight into whatever psychic stuff they have as hard as you can with the Scourges.

If you've got a high chance of going first (pre-game roll off + having the least drops) deploy very, very aggressively with what you have on the board and then hammer the psychic things as hard as you can with whatever firepower you can.

Archon Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio

Honestly 7 Hive Tyrants is easy, just Lnace/Dis cannon them down and place your Kabals as bubble wrap around your vehicles, since they have to smite before shooting and the closest.

Its the Magus spam thats bad, Tyrants is friendly game play IMO. They have 10w you can target them. They are weak to our Heavy Weapons.

Incubi Posts : 1844 Join date : 2017-07-05

Quote :: The only 'defence' we have is that of the Haemonculi's Crucible of Malediction, which does nothing for actual defence and is a very plinky and innefective deterrent to Psykers.

Killing is the best defense.
Seriously, the Crucible is an extremely cheap and efficient source of MW when you face a psycher spam. And a lot of people don't expect it. It can single-handedly win you games.

Against a Tyrant spam, i don't think any Kabal army should have any trouble. Dark lance and poison are tailored to deal with those targets.

Hellion Posts : 79 Join date : 2017-05-20

The trick with facing a Smite-Spam army is to deploy in onion layers, so that their smites only hit things that don't really matter. This means that (unintuitively) you want most of your infantry outside your transports, because losing a 50pts Kabalite squad with a single blaster doesn't matter much compared to losing the tough and mobile transport they came in.

You want your Turn 1 layers to look like this:
Enemy -> Kabalites -> Transports -> Ravagers and other important things -> Your board edge

Then once you've soaked their first turn with it, any remaining Kabalites jump back into the transports and you go to town, focussing down the targets one by one as usual.

Hellion Posts : 78 Join date : 2016-05-01

Yes, trying to stay away from psykers and feeding them cheap units is a good way to do it. Positioning is really important.

Honestly I feel like the psychic phase is the most annoying part of the game and offers the least interaction. I wouldn't shed a tear if tomorrow they removed the psychic from the game.

Archon Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio

yukondal wrote:: Yes, trying to stay away from psykers and feeding them cheap units is a good way to do it. Positioning is really important.

Honestly I feel like the psychic phase is the most annoying part of the game and offers the least interaction. I wouldn't shed a tear if tomorrow they removed the psychic from the game.

I honestly think its the best form of it since i've been playing, we do have defense and both players can interact in it via Denials and allies.

Before (3-5th) it was a LD with 0 ways to stop it or act and it was almost pointless at times unles you were Daemons, Eldar or GK's. 6-7th it could be abused so much, and it was.

Hellion Posts : 78 Join date : 2016-05-01

Right, craftworlders have defense. I agree that it's tamer now than before.

I also feel there are still several armies who struggle to do anything against it, and it's such a strong part of the game. Whole armies are built around psychic while others do nothing. Just seems strange to me.

Hekatrix Posts : 1392 Join date : 2015-06-21

Honestly? Smite spam really doesn't impress me. Literally everything in the game can cause wounds, after all, mortal wounds just cut down the dice rolling.

It's the buffs that are scary in my mind. A squad toting mass plasma is far scarier with +1 to hit, for instance, or that land raider full of Berserkers is far deadlier when it gets two movement phases.

Archon Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio

yukondal wrote:: Right, craftworlders have defense. I agree that it's tamer now than before.

I also feel there are still several armies who struggle to do anything against it, and it's such a strong part of the game. Whole armies are built around psychic while others do nothing. Just seems strange to me.

Thats codex imbalances imo, not core rules problems, but i understand if you still dont like the phase it self. I also dont agree that some armies has 0 defense to it, when in reality all should.

Hekatrix Posts : 1392 Join date : 2015-06-21

Tau should have a weak psyker defense. DE should have pretty strong options. Necrons should be able to shut down all but the most dedicated psyker builds, as this is literally what they do.

Hekatrix Posts : 1041 Join date : 2017-01-26

jeah look at us (and less familiar with necrons but I think the same thing goes for them).

If I play a 1 codex army dark eldar or necrons.

I have no or barely any psyker defenses. We do not even have snipers to deal with them. Our best defense is throw cheap units at them, while we are supposed to be a glass cannon.

Wych Posts : 925 Join date : 2017-01-03

Don't forget Tau! They've got nothing just like us!

Hekatrix Posts : 1392 Join date : 2015-06-21

Archon_91 wrote:: Don't forget Tau! They've got nothing just like us!

They have snipers. Also, fluff wise they are almost completely ignorant of psykers and their abilities so they haven't really had a good chance to develop countermeasures in the same way the US army hasn't developed anti-psyker weapons.

The Dark Eldar cannot really make that same excuse.

Archon Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio

We have Snipers too! Just 1 per 5 and on our HQ's Mad

If all wracks could get Hex rifles i so would do that lol, Open top sniper unit!

Hekatrix Posts : 1392 Join date : 2015-06-21

amishprn86 wrote:: We have Snipers too! Just 1 per 5 and on our HQ's

If all wracks could get Hex rifles i so would do that lol, Open top sniper unit!

Oh, and our main snipers come in a melee only unit, and all sniper options come at an opportunity cost of our only flamer equivalent unit.

Hekatrix Posts : 1041 Join date : 2017-01-26

well because the flamers are not that good now the opportunity cost is not that high Razz

Subject: Re: Dealing with Psyker-heavy armies Wed Oct 25 2017, 08:54

Just to briefly add a short story - a few weeks ago, I played against Thousand Sons. Several Psykers. There was at least a Champion in every unit, two proper Sorcerers, and two Daemon Princes.
I let loose three Crucibles in turn two right in the middle of his army, and utterly decimated them.
THe rest of my army then just mopped up.

If playing against Psykers, Crucibles are your friend.

Archon Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio

Yeah, when i pure DE i always take 2 Haemonculus, i like them a lot, i wish they were a bit cheaper. Again.... I miss 5th where they were 50pts each haha

Hekatrix Posts : 1392 Join date : 2015-06-21

amishprn86 wrote:: Yeah, when i pure DE i always take 2 Haemonculus, i like them a lot, i wish they were a bit cheaper. Again.... I miss 5th where they were 50pts each haha

Given I have a total of 5 Wracks as my entire Covens contingent I would be very annoyed if Haemonculus were the army's only source of psyker defense.

Archon Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio

I dont want them to be the only one, i just miss them when they were, more like Warlocks rather than a large tough guy. They are surgeons not fighters, and as of right now they do better in CC than Archons Mad

Hekatrix Posts : 1392 Join date : 2015-06-21

amishprn86 wrote:: I dont want them to be the only one, i just miss them when they were, more like Warlocks rather than a large tough guy. They are surgeons not fighters, and as of right now they do better in CC than Archons

Dude, a Haemie with a whip outclasses pretty much everything else in our character selection in melee, including named characters.

Incubi Posts : 1844 Join date : 2017-07-05

I think that's his point : he liked when they were less "the best killing machines" and more "weird warlocks-surgeons".

Hekatrix Posts : 1392 Join date : 2015-06-21

Mppqlmd wrote:: I think that's his point : he liked when they were less "the best killing machines" and more "weird warlocks-surgeons".

As did we all.

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