Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults

SERAFF wrote:

It is stated in codex:
"If your army is Battle-forged and includes any CraftworldsDetachments (pg 116), excluding Auxiliary Support Detachments,
you have access to the Stratagems shown here, meaning you can spend Command Points to activate them. These help to reflect
the unique strategies and fluid tactics used by the Asuryani on the battlefield."

So I think you can play SaimHann stratagem into SaimHann-Ynnari unit only if you have a Craftworlds
Detachment in your army.

Currently yes, you are correct. However in chapter approved bother Harlequins and Dark Eldar specifically state their littlegroup of rules state they cannot be used on units in Ynnari detachments, so there is chance not only will they keep that for the dark eldar codex but that this big FaQ might errata the same wording in for craftworlders as well.

Count Adhemar wrote:

6++ against shooting - well it's better than nothing I suppose!

20% points decrease, +1A, and a 6++? That is definitely better than nothing

Evil Space Elves wrote:

Count Adhemar wrote:

6++ against shooting - well it's better than nothing I suppose!

20% points decrease, +1A, and a 6++? That is definitely better than nothing

Wyches are 9 points in the index, no? So, not quite a 20% decrease, but I do agree the +1 Attack really helps. the 6++ is a nice little bonus too.

I wonder if the wyches' 'No Escape' rule has been changed in any way.

Bad-baden-baden wrote:

Evil Space Elves wrote:

Count Adhemar wrote:

6++ against shooting - well it's better than nothing I suppose!

20% points decrease, +1A, and a 6++? That is definitely better than nothing

Wyches are 9 points in the index, no? So, not quite a 20% decrease, but I do agree the +1 Attack really helps. the 6++ is a nice little bonus too.

As you were. I think my sleep deprived brain was thinking of Wracks

Evil Space Elves wrote:

Bad-baden-baden wrote:

Evil Space Elves wrote:

Count Adhemar wrote:

6++ against shooting - well it's better than nothing I suppose!

20% points decrease, +1A, and a 6++? That is definitely better than nothing

Wyches are 9 points in the index, no? So, not quite a 20% decrease, but I do agree the +1 Attack really helps. the 6++ is a nice little bonus too.

As you were. I think my sleep deprived brain was thinking of Wracks

20% point deduction on wracks is something to REALLY get excited about. Is your sleep deprivation giving me some false dreams here??

Edit: Quick, ESE, tell me if wracks got a "solid" points reduction!

Though wouldn't you get 20 extra attacks out of it as it starts at the start of the battle round and ends at the end? So doubling the +1 attack drug means you have +2 attacks for 2 combat phases, yours and your opponents. So in terms of a battle round a unit of Cult of strife that charge with the +1 atk drug using the Hyperstim boosts the unit to 6 attacks (a unit of 10 gets 60 attacks) then in the opponents fight phase (if they don't retreat ... And let's face it it might be suicidal if they do but "no escape" might keep them there anyway) you interrupt with 1?CP and pick this unit getting another 50 attacks out of the said 10 (assuming no casualties) for a total of 112 attacks out of the one unit in one turn ... In all honesty that kinda makes it worth it ... so for GEQ Given 3+ to hit is 76 hits, 4+ is 38 wounds and 5+ save for 26.333333333 wounds ... For Str+1 would be 72 str5 attacks (again 2 fight phases) 3+ to hit for 48 hits, 3+ wound for 23 wounds, 5+ save for 19.5 wounds (this is for cult of strife obsession, on the charge and without succubus rerolls)

The Shredder wrote:

Any thoughts on Hyperstimm Backlash?

I wont plan ahead and save CP's to use it but I will use if there is a random oh **** moment that came up, like an alpha strike army is in my face turn one and my bikes have more than 3 models in the unit or a max squad of wyches (that I am still skeptical about). I dont know if there will be many instances it will be used especially because of the CP cost.

Archon_91 wrote:

Though wouldn't you get 20 extra attacks out of it as it starts at the start of the battle round and ends at the end? So doubling the +1 attack drug means you have +2 attacks for 2 combat phases, yours and your opponents. So in terms of a battle round a unit of Cult of strife that charge with the +1 atk drug using the Hyperstim boosts the unit to 6 attacks (a unit of 10 gets 60 attacks) then in the opponents fight phase (if they don't retreat ... And let's face it it might be suicidal if they do but "no escape" might keep them there anyway) you interrupt with 1?CP and pick this unit getting another 50 attacks out of the said 10 (assuming no casualties) for a total of 112 attacks out of the one unit in one turn ... In all honesty that kinda makes it worth it ... so for GEQ Given 3+ to hit is 76 hits, 4+ is 38 wounds and 5+ save for 26.333333333 wounds ... For Str+1 would be 72 str5 attacks (again 2 fight phases) 3+ to hit for 48 hits, 3+ wound for 23 wounds, 5+ save for 19.5 wounds (this is for cult of strife obsession, on the charge and without succubus rerolls)

It's impossible that you would get 20 extra attacks. You either charge in and kill everything, or your opponent swings back and kills some of your things. And again, you've got to take a look at how many "extra" attacks you're getting from this stratagem.

20 extra attacks (at S3) in the best case scenario is still only giving you 4.4 wounds before saves against MEQ. For 2cp's it's just not worth it.

If you take cult of strife with the bonus strength it works out better, since all of your attacks "benefit". You would get an extra 8~ wounds vs MEQ (before saves) over what you normally would score.

Reavers with the +1T drug are T5 right? You could double that for 1 round going to T6 for extra protection. S3 now needs 6's to wound you.

I maaaaay have bought a Gangs of Comorragh box on my home today.

Red Grief looks like lots of fun, now I just have to hope Reavers actually hurt things rather than limply caressing them. Also, I cannot for the life of me figure out how I'd like to run my Hellions now! Any ideas?

Strife looks like it's gonna be good. Double-shooting or attacking like Ynnari. But for 3 command points it's gonna cost an arm and a leg to use every round.

PartZebra wrote:

Red Grief looks like lots of fun, now I just have to hope Reavers actually hurt things rather than limply caressing them.

Well, I think it was mentioned in WD that they'd got a significant point drop, which is promising. Especially with the Blaster actually being good now. It would be nice if their melee weapons were a bit better, too (I'm thinking of their Grav Talons and Cluster Caltrops).

PartZebra wrote:

Also, I cannot for the life of me figure out how I'd like to run my Hellions now! Any ideas?

Well, I normally prefer to run my squads as small as possible. This will make you less vulnerable to morale, allow you to split up, and make it more likely that the enemy will overkill a squad.

Of course, it can also be worse for drugs and stratagems, so it depends on how much value you put on them.

But if it was me, I'd stick with units of 5. Probably with PGLs on each of the Helliarchs. I might give them Agonisers as well, but I'd check first whether any weapons have changed in cost or rules.

PartZebra wrote:

I maaaaay have bought a Gangs of Comorragh box on my home today.

Red Grief looks like lots of fun, now I just have to hope Reavers actually hurt things rather than limply caressing them. Also, I cannot for the life of me figure out how I'd like to run my Hellions now! Any ideas?

Man I want one so bad, but it's out of stock on the GW webstore...significant pts reduction to reavers means I'm definetly considering taking 12 with red grief trait.

[quote="The Shredder"]

PartZebra wrote:

Well, I think it was mentioned in WD that they'd got a significant point drop, which is promising.

Do you have a link to this in the WD?

I found this from players that apparently read the codex.

My opinions :

- Cursed blade looks strong. The bonus is permanent, and if you're running wyches you want to have +1 A AND +1 S (not +2 A or +2 S), so going Cursed Blade + Attack Drug would be my choice if I run only 1 wych unit. The moral aspect is also very cool, and it's amazing to have both in the same faction.
+ The relic is amazing for dueling, since if you're in a duel the MW go to the HQ, probably killing him (or SERIOUSLY damaging him).
But for Hellions or Reavers, this isn't ideal at all (Reavers can't use +1S, and I'd rather have my hellions with more attacks).

- This is going to be my basic trait. +1 A is useful for every cult unit (a bit less so for Succubus though), but only on the first round, so you can't really charge powerful units or you'll get bogged down. For wyches, you can run this trait + the S drug, but then you're on the same level of power as above, for one round, without the moral immunity... so not that great.
+ HOWEVER, this stratagem is very expensive, but kinda crazy if you ask me. Getting another round of HL/blasters with your reavers, charging a weak unit to kill it and jump (without overwatch, T'au are gonna love it) and fight again on your key target... it's really powerful. 3 CP is A LOT, so you're gonna do it once per game, but it could be a game-winning move.

- Red grief : eh. Getting to combat is fine, but without either of the above our Cult troops are going to be sub-par in offense. The only point of this trait IMO is getting some tarpit reavers into the enemy tanks to prevent them from shooting. Which is useful, without a doubt. But this is not going to be your standard trait, it's more of the "distraction cult" strategy.
+ The stratagem looks expensive, and sub-par. 2 CP to gain +1 A/S/T, but suffer mortal wounds ? Right... For one more CP you can get an entire CC round without any "backlash".


So IMO :
- Best obsession for wyches (+cool WL trait) : Cursed blade. I'm curious of what their stratagem will be.

- Weaker trait, but useful to more units (+ super cool stratagem) : strife

- Weak trait (+weak stratagem) : red grief.

Using the double drugeffect stratagem looks fun on hellions. Tempted to make a disposible wych detachment with exploding succubus for turn 1 wtf experience for my opponent.

Mppqlmd wrote:

My opinions :

- Cursed blade looks strong. The bonus is permanent, and if you're running wyches you want to have +1 A AND +1 S (not +2 A or +2 S), so going Cursed Blade + Attack Drug would be my choice if I run only 1 wych unit. The moral aspect is also very cool, and it's amazing to have both in the same faction.
+ The relic is amazing for dueling, since if you're in a duel the MW go to the HQ, probably killing him (or SERIOUSLY damaging him).
But for Hellions or Reavers, this isn't ideal at all (Reavers can't use +1S, and I'd rather have my hellions with more attacks).

- This is going to be my basic trait. +1 A is useful for every cult unit (a bit less so for Succubus though), but only on the first round, so you can't really charge powerful units or you'll get bogged down. For wyches, you can run this trait + the S drug, but then you're on the same level of power as above, for one round, without the moral immunity... so not that great.
+ HOWEVER, this stratagem is very expensive, but kinda crazy if you ask me. Getting another round of HL/blasters with your reavers, charging a weak unit to kill it and jump (without overwatch, T'au are gonna love it) and fight again on your key target... it's really powerful. 3 CP is A LOT, so you're gonna do it once per game, but it could be a game-winning move.

- Red grief : eh. Getting to combat is fine, but without either of the above our Cult troops are going to be sub-par in offense. The only point of this trait IMO is getting some tarpit reavers into the enemy tanks to prevent them from shooting. Which is useful, without a doubt. But this is not going to be your standard trait, it's more of the "distraction cult" strategy.
+ The stratagem looks expensive, and sub-par. 2 CP to gain +1 A/S/T, but suffer mortal wounds ? Right... For one more CP you can get an entire CC round without any "backlash".


So IMO :
- Best obsession for wyches (+cool WL trait) : Cursed blade. I'm curious of what their stratagem will be.

- Weaker trait, but useful to more units (+ super cool stratagem) : strife

- Weak trait (+weak stratagem) : red grief.

I'm in agreement with just about everything you've said here.

I wouldn't all red grief weak. It's not that useful for wyches, but for reavers/hellions it's mighty handy. If we get the solid pts reduction of both/either of those units, red grief will have a place for fast wych cult units. Also the strength trait is actually useless on reavers, since the strength boost won't affect the strength of bladevanes.

WS0007 wrote:

Do you have a link to this in the WD?

From the WD leaks thread:

Bad-baden-baden wrote:

Some new tidbits from Warhammer community:

Lord Asvaldir wrote:

I wouldn't all red grief weak. It's not that useful for wyches, but for reavers/hellions it's mighty handy. If we get the solid pts reduction of both/either of those units, red grief will have a place for fast wych cult units. Also the strength trait is actually useless on reavers, since the strength boost won't affect the strength of bladevanes.

I wrote that Reavers can't use +1 S.

For reavers... you could argue that +1 A is not as valuable as the first-turn potential that Red Grief has.

For Hellions... not at all. They have hit-and-run, so they are the PERFECT candidate for the cult of Strife, and it boosts their damage output so much. And also want (really hard) to create a bloody line in my opponent's army by charging with 20 Hellions, deal 80 S4 D2 attacks, kill everyone, spend 3 CP, reengage, deal 80 S4 D2 attacks, and re-kill everyone. Unlikely, but the offensive potential is... quite huge.

That's a fair point I forgot about, hellions definetly are the perfect and candidate for +1 attack since they can easily bounce in and out of combat, assuming they survive at least. That actually makes cult traits a bit difficult, since for wyches it seems clear that +1 strength is the best, hellions +1 attack and reavers advance and charge. Guess the trait really comes down to which of those units you want to focus on.

Lord Asvaldir wrote:

That's a fair point I forgot about, hellions definetly are the perfect and candidate for +1 attack since they can easily bounce in and out of combat, assuming they survive at least. That actually makes cult traits a bit difficult, since for wyches it seems clear that +1 strength is the best, hellions +1 attack and reavers advance and charge. Guess the trait really comes down to which of those units you want to focus on.

Strife is acceptable for wyches IMO. But the line-breaker to chose between Strife and Cursed blade will be the Strife relic, Cursed Blade stratagem, and WL traits.

Lord Asvaldir wrote:

That's a fair point I forgot about, hellions definetly are the perfect and candidate for +1 attack since they can easily bounce in and out of combat, assuming they survive at least. That actually makes cult traits a bit difficult, since for wyches it seems clear that +1 strength is the best, hellions +1 attack and reavers advance and charge. Guess the trait really comes down to which of those units you want to focus on.

I argue that for hellions the +1S trait is better by virtue of becoming basically fearless. Yeah, in theory +1 attack is better against T3, quite similar against T4, but the morale thing is what really, really wins out.