Just got back into the game.

Obviously alot changed, but I just wanted to know, what units aren't viable anymore? I've read on here incubi aren't good, anything else? Are dark lances still viable on a razorwing?

OMG. That's the biggest question on the Dark City, if not the entire internet about every faction. And you know you're going to get the wildest, most diverse, and deeply opinionated responses ever from us. This group is wicked smart but sometimes more negative on 8th than I understand, so steel yourself up a bit.

Quick [and controversial] answer: Everything is more viable than ever. In previous editions that question of yours was truly more valid. This edition, you could really run just about anything without thinking that you'll be making a major mistake.

That said, there's a whole lot of "better" choices than others and some come all the way down to playstyle. In general, our mercenary units are overlooked probably because they do not get any of our obsessions and our obsessions are so good that other factions not only envy what we got but consider it the baseline for what each faction should strive for. Incubi fit here. Some units are just overcosted. Most of our HQ are considered weak. Drazhar is nearly unplayable because he costs about twice what he should. Succubi and Archon are okay for their cost, but aren't incredible threats. Most of us would agree that you'd want to steer away from: Hellions, Incubi, all beasts...hmm...thinking....most of the Court (but I often run three Slyyth).

Dark lances very viable on a razorwing. However, we're all more and more positive that disintegrators are superior. Especially because they're cheaper. And we'd probably still think they were superior if they cost the same. I think I'd run disintegrators if the cost of dark lances and disintegrators flipped. But no one thinks dl are not good guns. Disintegrators are just really reliably good.

And blasters. If something can have a blaster, give it a blaster.

The list of things I simply can't find a place for in my regular games or competitively;
Drazhar
Ur-ghul
Medusae
Khymerae
Clawed Fiend
Hellions

Incubi could really really use some kind of special rule to give them a niche but they fulfil the role of marine killer admirably enough, it's just that by time you get the incubi to the fight most of the marines will be dead and a lack of invul save is worrisome for them as you'll often lose a bunch even hugging cover for a 2+ save.
Dark lances are still fine, just that disintegrators are cheaper and more efficient with Doom / Writ support, personally I prefer the random luck of a d6 damage weapon but I always try to take back up haywire scourges just incase.

Pretty much all of the above.
Anything coven is pretty good, anything kabal is good enough, cult can be excellent with the right drug buff, except hellions, they still die to a stiff breeze.
Incubus kill fast and die faster, so use with caution.
My only real problem is the court, since they are not characters anymore they get sniped instantly.
Ravagers excluded all my vehicles get dark lances, just because my dice can't roll higher than 4 to save their lives.

Ok thank you guys, in smaller games say around 1k points, is it more viable to do a patrol or battallion? How important are command points in small point games?

Battalion, vanguard or outrider, based on your play style and Obsession.
CP are always important, the more the better.

And our forces seems very viable to do a small point cost Battalion. Easier than many factions while retaining competitive viability. At 1k, many factions are forced to slip into Patrols.
Spearhead is very viable and easy, too. Ravagers with Kabalite and Taloi with Coven. The only time I'm compelled to run Vanguard is with a heavy Grotesque list.

Biggest problem we have with Battalions is that our HQs are a massive tax. Like, the cheapest Kabal Battalion is only 234 points but the Archons are 60% of that.

It certainly doesn't hold us back but we're not quite at Imperial level for cheap command points.

That's my issue with my list, the archon feel like a big tax.

FullDE wrote:

That's my issue with my list, the archon feel like a big tax.

Agreed. And this is probably my biggest issue with Dark Eldar at the moment.

What are some viable builds for archons? I'm thinking one with the djun blade relic, another with a blaster.

Also, do grotesques pay for their flesh gauntlets seperately? I don't want to.post points, but I'm a little confused.

Yeah you pay for the gauntlets on grotesques.

I tend to run Black Heart at the moment so have a Writ of the Living Muse Archon with Venom Blade to keep him cheap, no warlord trait. My second Archon has the Djinn Blade, blast pistol, PGL and Hatred Eternal for getting into fights as I like to use all my units aggressively if possible (he went 1v1 against a Trygon Prime last game which was fun, killed it in the end without losing his Shadoefield). When I run flayed skull I just change the WL trait to fsmed savagery on him, and try to rack up character kills with soul trap. Poison Tongue I run 1 with the Agoniser & Parasites kiss and soulthirst, 1 with Agoniser and Soulseeker.

Splinter Pistol and Venom Blade then park them by Ravagers or an objective for the whole game. I run Flayed Skull so might give one the Obsidian Veil as well.

I'm all about Obsidian Rose. I just can't see why the majority DE players opt for other choices as it really sets my Kabal detachments free and makes my Archons significant.
My common loadout:
Archon, Obsidian Rose.
Warlord Trait: Deathly Perfectionist (+1 damage on all of this unit's weapons)
Blaster at 24" range, d6+1 damage
Venom blade: 2 damage, wounding on 2+

Usually have 1-3 Slyyth right up against him, and 3 Ravagers wedged around him for the reroll 1 to hit aura. All guns firing at 42".

Thanks guys, won my first game back yesturday using pure kabal. How are cults and coven holding up? Do pure lists work for them? Also is wwp a large unit of grotesques suciede?

The etc tourney meta is
A prophet of flesh battalion
And then have 3*3 talos with Chain flays and macros with twin haywires
And then a blackheart spearhead with 3 ravagers with disses.
Use remaining points on grots or razorwings i NEVER lose with this.
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