New challenges facing space marines

I've tested a couple lists with two Invictor Warsuits. So far they are amazing. Sure they don't last the entire game, but they force opponents to deal with them turn 1. 13 wounds at T6 is still a decent amount. They may die quickly, but they are only ~130 points. It will still take 8 blasters to drop. Splinter weapons don't touch them. A Talos is scary, but then it isn't moving up the board to engage the rest of the army.

I think you'll see quite a few Invictors.

Faitherun wrote:

Lord Asvaldir wrote:

Nice review, for the most part I agree with your assessment. I think the strongest counter marines in general have always had against dark eldar is just spamming bolters at our vehicles. Given even just a basic bolter can have ap-1, and the ease with which marines can get rapid fire even at long ranges, I think bolter spam fired at our vehicles could hurt. I do find however the majority of players I face have a mental block on using low strength weapons on our transports, I guess the fact that they are vehicles discourages some people from using bolters and the like on raiders/venoms. We'll see if that lasts.

One thing I do disagree with you on though is the invictor tactical warsuit. If the marine player gets first turn, that flamer has a solid chance to wreck a venom, and then charge something else and wreck another transport in melee. Sure it's not gonna last long after that, it is very vulnerable to blasters but it's potential to cause damage turn 1 can't be ignored. An opponent taking 3 of them would be a pain.

Other thing about facing marines, the shock assault change is a bit rough for wych cults. Any primaris unit is pumping out a fair number of attacks into wyches, and massed s4 hurts them. That being said, if most players stick to 5 man squads of intercessors and similar sized squads of other primaris marines, that is less of a concern to me. It's more that in a pinch, all marines are a bit more potent in melee.

Overall, the update will definetly make marines a much more potent foe as they should be, but I don't really think it's going to fundamentally change how I deal with them. Disintegrator cannons and macro-scalpels still love facing primaris marines.

Thanks for the feedback Lord Asvaldir. I do agree the invictor could be semi deadly, but in that scenario it is barely making even on its points. I simply feel that after marine players run it a half dozen times, it will start gathering dust. I guess it could be more than a 1 out of 5 though....

It will certainly be interesting to see how marine players tactics change with this. As for the massed bolters killing our raiders.... I try to keep that a closely guarded secret If my opponents ever figured that out, I'd have to be a bit more careful with them!

We'll see I'd suppose, I'd like to see a few marine players running them and seeing how they do before I write them off. And it certainly is something you're forced to deal with and pour fire into to get rid off, can't leave those rampaging about.

Fingers crossed the majority of marine players don't discover that secret for a long time to come..

Sadly, most of the marine pages seem to be all over the Invictors. I think we'll see a lot. I'm enjoying them as a break from my elves. Although I do miss mobility....

I don't see that as a big issue for DE. No invul, +3 armor and less than t8 are the perfect target for blasters. Now when you throw in the half damage stratagem though, they are going to take more firepower to take out.

Thing to note, Invictors do *not* have the dreadnought keyword, so they cannot use the Stratagem. If anyone tries to do half damage on an Invictor tell them no.

I haven't actually seen the codex so I wasn't aware of the keyword, but now that I think of it yeah that makes sense seeing as the invictor is technically not a dreadnought. Well one less reason to be worried about facing them.