About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors

Jebei wrote:

Has anyone tried running 10 truborn Poison tongue with blasters and DL defending an objective rather than placing them in transport?It could be decent bait for a trap maybe?

Why Poison Tongue?

Just for the 2+ Splinter fire,but OS could be just as good for the extended ranges?

Jebei wrote:

Just for the 2+ Splinter fire,but OS could be just as good for the extended ranges?

The trouble with PT is that Poison without AP doesn't really do a whole lot. If that unit fires at a Marine squad in rapid-fire range, all those poison shots are only downing a single Marine.

OR at least buffs the primary focus of Trueborn (the special/heavy weapons). However, if you put them in a Raider with Splinter Racks, they could have a 30" rapid-fire range.

The other aspect is that Trueborn only get offensive buffs over Warriors. When it comes to defence, they get no extra protection. So they've got big targets painted on them but without a transport all they've got is T3 with 4+ saves.

That said, I'm honestly wondering whether Trueborn are worth it at all. Not counting the Archon tax, you're looking at a minimum of 250pts (including the Raider), which buys you 2 Dark Lance shots (one at BS2+), 2 Blaster shots (BS2+) and 7/14 splinter shots (meh). Yet for just 10pts more, you could have 2 Ravagers, which net you 6 Dark Lance shots.

These times I mosly play small games (500 or 1000 pts), my BH trueborn with 1DL and 2 shredders in a raider make for a good all-purpose ranged unit. I really like shredders, I feel they might be under-appreciated.

Trueborn are even better with To The Last. They now pair really well with Ravagers, now that they went down to 130 (and are no longer a TTL target).

Im running Trueborn and 2 Ravagers in my Tourney list right now to counter the Thicc City and Knight builds running around right now.

The thing to consider when comparing Trueborn and Ravagers is that once the Ravager is destroyed.........well it is over entirely.
While if your Raider is destroyed, you still have 8-10 models that can still do some serious damage, hold objectives etc...

I get the point, but i think we should not overlook our Trueborn only based upon the "Ravagers have more shots".

Bloodbrides now however i agree are close to being unplayable now!

@Patayou this week end i will play a bunch of 500pts games! and i intend on trying something a little bit like you are referring: 1x DL and 2x shredders on my Trueborns!

Kalmah wrote:

The thing to consider when comparing Trueborn and Ravagers is that once the Ravager is destroyed.........well it is over entirely.
While if your Raider is destroyed, you still have 8-10 models that can still do some serious damage, hold objectives etc...

I agree with the principle of what you're saying but do bear in mind that Trueborn + Raider is the equivalent of two Ravagers.

So whilst the destruction of a Raider still leaves your Trueborn (mostly) intact, the destruction of one Ravager also leaves your second Ravager intact.

i agree on that too
but i just want to point out that there is more to take into account than the number of shots.
Also, to mitigate the point cost, usually you will need anyway a unit of Kabalite and usually an Archon, so the point comparison is not THAT simple.
But again, i get your point

Kalmah wrote:

i agree on that too
but i just want to point out that there is more to take into account than the number of shots.

Oh absolutely. I'm usually someone who leans more towards Kabalites/Trueborn in transports over Ravagers, even if the latter are technically more points efficient, just because they tend to have more redundancy built in.

The issue with Trueborn is that I seem to be paying an awful lot of points and not actually getting a whole lot for it. BS2+ is nice, but 70% of that is wasted on regular splinter fire, and another 20% is stuck with Blasters (which, especially in the hands of Trueborn, are just vastly worse Dark Lances) or Shredders (which are fine but hardly spectacular, let alone for a 150pt unit). So at the end of the day you only actually get 1 weapon you'd actually really want BS2+ for.

Kalmah wrote:

Also, to mitigate the point cost, usually you will need anyway a unit of Kabalite and usually an Archon, so the point comparison is not THAT simple.

True, though when I factor in the cost of the Archon and troops (whether Kabalites or Trueborn), I tend to lean more towards wondering whether my army really needs a Kabal detachment in the first place.

But if you're set on one, you're right, the Trueborn at least fulfil a mandatory role.

lol i agree that for now Kabal seems to be the lowest of the 3 subfactions available
Cult, even with the point increase, is still insane (partly because of Hellions)
Coven now seems to be a real deal with the point decrease.

Well, some time passed and I am asking myself if Kabalites are still viable.
At least some MSU squads. Im still a big fan of Trueborn, hitting always on 2+...

Zenotaph wrote:

Well, some time passed and I am asking myself if Kabalites are still viable.
At least some MSU squads. Im still a big fan of Trueborn, hitting always on 2+...

Well, It seems to me that massed poison shooting might be good vs. Daemons and Votann, as the average save for both armies is 4+, and the AP0 on splinter rifles doesn't really care that Daemonic saves are not modifiable or that Votann get AoC from their void armor.

Good point. Maybe with PT and Splinterracks.... I think of it some more...

Zenotaph wrote:

Good point. Maybe with PT and Splinterracks.... I think of it some more...

If splinterrack were a bit cheaper, it would really be worth it, I think. Granted, we've all been complaining about their cost for quite some time.

I think its really important to keep SOME shooting in our lists, mainly for wound-phase-capped units like Abadon and Ctan.

At 40 points for a unit of 5, they can easily get included in a list. Worst case scenario they fill the role of Wracks to exist on a backfield objective or screen out opponents DS.