1500 point in need of help

Now this list I have has served me pretty well in the past as aq basic gunline army with a few CC additions so please help. I will also list every other model I have to see if any of them would be better suited to the list...

1500 point:

4x Raiders
+ Night Shield
+ Flickerfield

320 points

9 Incubi
+ Klaivex
+ Demiklaives
+ Bloodstone
+ Murderous Assault
+ Onslaught

273 points

Archon (Goes with Incubi)
+ Huskblade
+ Shadow Field
+ Combat Drugs
+ Soul Trap

145 points

10 Kabalites
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Sybarite
+ Blast Pistol
+ Agoniser
+ Blaster

175 points

10 Kabalites
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Sybarite
+ Splinter Pistol
+ Power Weapon

120 points

10 Kabalites
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Sybarite
+ Splinter Pistol
+ Venom Blade

115 points

2x Ravagers
+ Night Shields
+ Flickerfield

250 points

Talos Pain Engine

100 points

Total = 1498 points

All Raiders and Ravagers are equipped with Dark Lances as to be expected, possibility for having one Ravager with all Disintigrator Cannons for a Troop killer but not sure...
Now i've been out of the game a while so cannot remember if this was the final list but it sounds close to it, every troop unit is in a Raider so everything is transported excluding Talos.
In addition to this I have:

3x Revers
1x Raider
10x Kabalites
6x Incubi
10x Hellions
1x Archon (plus one of each of the court)
1x Voidraven Bomber/Razorwing Jetfighter
1x Urien Rakarth/Haemonculus/Ancient

PLEASE HELP OUT!!!

All comments are welcome, hopefully none too punishing.

Bless your carbuncles uncles

I have several thoughts...

Raiders - i would go either NS or FF - not both. Personally i prefer FF but thats a play style choice. With both they are just to expensive.

Incubi - Overkill. Loose the demiklaives, onslaught, murderousassault & blood stone at the least. All of these are making an overkill unit even more overkill and points bloated. I run 7-8 with a basic klaivex and its ample.

Archon - if your going to run with the incubi he should have a phantasm launcher (though i find with 8 incubi they do ok without him). He could run elsewhere as he is though... hitching a ride and basically being a guided missile

10 Kabalites - i like the sybarite upgrade on 10 model units but you can loose the agoniser for sure - kabalites in combat are dead. The blast pistol is also questionable...

10 Kabalites - ditch the power weapon and add a blaster

10 Kabalites - you can loose the venom blade and add a blaster... no combat is good for kabalites!

2x Ravagers - i like both vehicle upgrades here - keem them with lances though

Talos Pain Engine - take the haywire blaster upgrade and maybe chain flails

thanking you kindly, the incubi however i would probably keep the bloodstone as it gives them a pretty sweet ranged attack, i can understand the other knock offs. Archon i would probably keep him with the incubi as it gives him some more protection. The Raiders I can understand as well, again yeah probably keep FF's on it. Kabalites, understandable, the blaster is a reasonable add on for knocking down the rest as this is meant to be gun line. My talos normally does have chain flails and haywire but this list being cut down will now allow that. Thanking you kindly Massaen.

Bless your carbuncle's uncles

Perhaps switch the Talos for some Hellions. Your Talos is just a big slow moving target. 3 Lascannon shots at your Talos and he is dead. Hellions are faster, have S4 and easier to hide. On the other hand: every shot at your Talos is not hitting your other vehicles.

Me, too, would loose some Inccubi. You charge, kill the whole enemy squad (30+ S4 powerweapon-attacks) - then get shot to pieces. Lesser attacks means, that you kill the squad next turn and are able to move on immediately

Use talos/cronos in assault heavy lists, not shooty lists like this. You want to lock down whatever it is you're going to assault before he goes charging in or else he's going to go last, and despite how it looks, he's not the toughest of dudes, a normal squad of marines should have no problem taking out a talos in one turn... For the list you're using, another ravager is a better choice

I disagree about loosing all of the extras on the incubi... Keep the demiklaves and onslaught, you need them to finish off whatever it is you're fighting in one turn, because although a 3+ armor save is nice, they lack an invul, and cost too much to lose 2 or 3 to power weapons in one turn. Personally, I think you would be better off going with wyches/bloodbrides... you'll get more for your money

If you plan on bunkering your warriors down in raiders, get rid of the sybarites to free up some more points, as chances are, when they are no longer in your raiders, they'll be dead shortly afterwards, or next to useless anyway.

If you get rid of all your sybarites, and change your incubi to bloodbrides (maybe change out your archon for a succubus for more cheaper killing potential, and since you wont need him for his PGL any more), you should be able to net a full extra wych squad w/raider, or two 3man wrack squads (maybe even two 5 man warrior squads w/blasters) in venoms (w/ extra splinter cannon)

My thoughts.....


-Your Incubi squad is serious overkill as a few have mentioned, I like to run about 6 or 7 in my squads. Onslaught/Demiklaive is fine but Murderous Assault seems a little unnecessary as you will chop most HQ squads to pieces with Incubi.......and Jesus, Mary, and Joseph get rid of that bloodstone ::sigh::

-Im not a fan of Huskblade/soultrap archon as it's very circumstantial but thats just an opinion thing. I personally find agoniser's more practical.

-Im just gonna pretend that sybarite doesn't have a blast pistol and go on happily with my life......seriously though, other than the sybarites your warrior squads look fine but they are huge point wastes with how you have them armed.

-I love the Talos myself; but for the strategy you seem to be going for with this list it really doesn't work. They seem best suited in WWP lists that can get them across the board quickly. If you drop the talos and some equipment off the sybarites you can add a jet and watch ppl cry

-I always put FF & NS on all my vehicles; some say a NS on an assault raider is a waste but I personally like the fact that people can only rapid fire 6in @ my vehicles(multi meltas have a 6in melta range to instead of 12)


You have a nice base to your list; just have to tweek a few things and it will be great. Best of luck to you!

and normal meltas have 6" range with 3" melta LOL

Multimelta have a 9" melta range when effected by ns(melta is always calculated as half max range)

Quote :

-I always put FF & NS on all my vehicles; some say a NS on an assault raider is a waste but I personally like the fact that people can only rapid fire 6in @ my vehicles

+1

falcon98 wrote:

and normal meltas have 6" range with 3" melta LOL

NS only drop you to a minimum of 6"....god I wish that wasn't how it worked lol.

Melta is always calculated at half of maximum range. If your max range is 6" the melta is at 3".

Well I have been cheating myself then, I assumed the "cannot make any range less than 6in" wouldn't allow that. That makes me very happy =)