Grotesques?

Setomidor wrote:

Is a classical Huskblade/soul trap/shadow field Archon the best Grot-buddy now after the FAQ? High I and grenades over Haemo, and considerable endurance and AP2 goodness over the Succubus

I think its a good combo, compared to the Succubus anyway. But the Archon is Str 3 base. So maybe take a Haemie with the squad to give 2 Pain Tokens, giving the Archon FC on the charge. Drugs will give a further boost too, but are too randomn to build a plan around.

I personally am liking the look of 8 Wracks (an Acothyst w/ Scissorhands), Haemie w/ Scissorhands and Archon w/ Huskblade (and a few other bits), as they get reroll to wounds vs Str 4 opponents. And against lower Int opponents they're more survivable.

4 Grots; Aberation, VB, liquifier Raider, ethersails
1 Hammy liquifier

I ran this loadout against eldar yesterday, he had holed up in the corner, scared of my 18 reavers. I boosted towards his line first turn with the raider and the unit came through the shooting phase like a boss, 2 wounds on 1 grot and 1 on the hammy. I charged his warwalkers, killed 2 of them and the last one was reduced to 1 hull point. On his turn he charged with some harlequins and did 3 wounds, i wiffed hard in reply and only did 2 wounds failed my leadership and was swept thanks to I4 vs I6 i rolled a 1. Will seriously consider a succy to run with them next time, would have been the difference between alive and dead.

Steffo: yeah, the Succbus is probably a better buddy than the Haemy, or do as I did yesterday and bring both

I used this yesterday (Also against Eldar, 1000 pts)

Code:

4 Grots; Aberration, Flesh Gauntlet, Liquifier Raider, Enhanced Aethersails
Haemy, Liquifier, Venom Blade
Succubus, Venom Blade, Haywire Grenades

I deployed like this:



I got the first turn and threw the Grots right at him:



He used his Farseer for Guide and Doom, and unleashed 750 pts worth of shooting on the Grots (everything but the Pathfinders and his 5 Jetbikes). He rolled quite well, but with FNP and the cover save from the exploded Raider he just barely inflicted 12 Wounds, killing the Grots but leaving the characters. He charged with the Shining Spears but his champion got cut down by the Succubus and they were then locked in combat for a few turns.

I considered to Go-to-ground within the crater for a 3+ Cover (and in hindsight, that might have been a good idea) but I was hoping for a single Grot to survive in order to assault and lock him up in combat. However, they still absorbed horrendous amounts of shooting which would otherwise have been targeted at my weak transports or bikes, but he still couldn't leave the Grots unharmed as they would have chewed their way through his army turn after turn.

If you're curious about the rest of the game: The Haemy was killed in combat with the Shinging Spears but the Succubus wore them down after a few turns. The Reavers on my right killed the Jetbikes in Assault and then mopped up the Pathfinders. My Ravager and Venoms stayed back and pounded his units with long-distance shots, then the Wych unit (in V1) made a 20" charge at the advancing Waveserpent, taking it down with Haywires.

In all, I wiped him by turn 4 and only lost Grots, their Raider, the Haemy, 1 Wych and 3 Bikes.

Sounds like a great game Setomidor. Glad to see your getting good mileage out of the grots (even if it just means absorbing all your opponent fire power for one turn). I agree in hindsight going to ground might have been a better option, more grots would have survived and he probably still would have assaulted you. Even if he didn't would he waste a second turn, of shooting on the grots? Interesting to say the least.

Thank you for sharing (the pain).

No problemo

The thing that finally made me decide against going to ground was that he rolled the Ignore-Cover Divination spell. He didn't cast it this turn because he didn't know about the crater forming after the Raider went down (thanks for sharing that info, Mushkilla!). He also had the ignore-cover Missile Launcher thing on this Dark Reapers, so a considerable portion of his shooting would have been able to ignore cover during the next turn.

That makes sense. Foolish Eldar they should know when they are defeated!

Agreed

Will you be running Grots in your next game? Would be very interesting to hear your "professional" thoughts about them compared to my newbie ramblings

Setomidor wrote:

"professional"

HAHA... that's a good one.

No, but I am looking into it, Next game I will be experimenting with Pain Engines, and Blasters.

I've been trying to following setup for some times now :

1 Archon with Huskblade, HWG, SF and Soul trap
3 Grotesques, 1 with a liquifier
1Aberration with Flesh Gauntlet
In a raider, sometimes accompagned with an Haemonculus.

The LoS did nerf wounds spreading a bit but with 2 Grots in B2B with the Archon it still takes 5 wounds to kill the first Grot. With their toughness that require a lot of firepower so it's still viable imo. The squad can be in assault by turn 2 and it will tear through many things... vehicules and any infantry that is not an assault monster. The one time it didn't make its point back was when I rolled 1 on LoS and then another 1 on the SF test.

how exactly did the WWP get nerfed? sorry new to DE. And how exactly does a WWP work? does it work like open topped vehicles? can we charge as they come on? or does coming out of it count as moving? and even if it does, if its within 12 inches of something, you should still be able to charge right? obviously charging 12 is a push but still....

Quote :

Doomseer11b
how exactly did the WWP get nerfed? sorry new to DE. And how exactly does a WWP work? does it work like open topped vehicles? can we charge as they come on? or does coming out of it count as moving? and even if it does, if its within 12 inches of something, you should still be able to charge right? obviously charging 12 is a push but still....

When units emerge from a WWP they are treated the same as coming in from reserve, in 5th units could charge coming in from reserve however in 6th they cannot charge, they can only move and shoot. That is the nerf people are referring too.

Sadly, no assaults are allowed on the turn in which you arrive from reserve in 6th edition. So the WWP is now far less useful.

well that sucks... kind of takes all the fun away. well thanks for the quick answer =)

Is there a final verdict on how to use these guys in game and into combat without dieing? Without the use of vehicles?

I've tried 4 Grotesques (1 liquifier) with shadowfield Archon (also huskblade, soultrap, drugs and ghostplate armour) and Haemonculus (venom blade and liquifier) in a Raider with shields and flickerfield in my 1500 list. It worked nice. When Raider explodes (and it really does, everybody wants to shoot down this deathstar) it does very little harm to the unit due to T5 and FNP. When running towards the enemy, high toughness saves you from some part of shooting as well - Archon is leading the unit, you just need to look-out wounds that are insta-killing him on the nearest Grotesque (change wounded one with his fresh buddy during next movement) and save everything else with the awesomeness of shadowfield And new FNP rule kinda gives Grots 5+ invulnerable save against everything apart strenght 10, wich only seriously heavy guns have, and these guns are firing at Grots instead of your Ravager (and that's pretty cool). Then charge some sort of space marine character in terminator armour with your S4 (furious charge, thanks Haemy) AP2 sword and steal his soul with a mad laughter Two liquifiers are really helping too - some BT bikers wanted to charge me, I rolled AP1 and AP3 and kill 3 of them, and they failed their charge. Such moments are great))

I suppose this is not some very-competitive-tournament-style stuff, but I think it's quite fun.

Beriadan wrote:

Then charge some sort of space marine character in terminator armour with your S4 (furious charge, thanks Haemy) AP2 sword and steal his soul with a mad laughter

What AP2 sword are you referring too?

Mud

Mudpuppet wrote:

Beriadan wrote:

Then charge some sort of space marine character in terminator armour with your S4 (furious charge, thanks Haemy) AP2 sword and steal his soul with a mad laughter

What AP2 sword are you referring too?

Mud

He's referring to the Huskblade! AP2 thanks to latest FaQ.

Oh great! I was unaware of that. Thanks buddy.

Mud

Beriadan wrote:

I've tried 4 Grotesques (1 liquifier) with shadowfield Archon (also huskblade, soultrap, drugs and ghostplate armour) and Haemonculus (venom blade and liquifier) in a Raider with shields and flickerfield in my 1500 list. It worked nice. When Raider explodes (and it really does, everybody wants to shoot down this deathstar) it does very little harm to the unit due to T5 and FNP. When running towards the enemy, high toughness saves you from some part of shooting as well - Archon is leading the unit, you just need to look-out wounds that are insta-killing him on the nearest Grotesque (change wounded one with his fresh buddy during next movement) and save everything else with the awesomeness of shadowfield And new FNP rule kinda gives Grots 5+ invulnerable save against everything apart strenght 10, wich only seriously heavy guns have, and these guns are firing at Grots instead of your Ravager (and that's pretty cool). Then charge some sort of space marine character in terminator armour with your S4 (furious charge, thanks Haemy) AP2 sword and steal his soul with a mad laughter Two liquifiers are really helping too - some BT bikers wanted to charge me, I rolled AP1 and AP3 and kill 3 of them, and they failed their charge. Such moments are great))

I suppose this is not some very-competitive-tournament-style stuff, but I think it's quite fun.

What is the trade-off between the Grots+Haemon tactic for the HB Archon and the Wracks+Haemon tactic for the Archon. A unit with less toughness and effectiveness but it's cheaper and is scoring whilst still allowing the same S4 on the charge for the Archon tactic and still packs two LFGs. Which do people think is better?

4 Grots w/LFG, Haemon w/LFG, VB. Raider = 275pts
8 Wracks w/LFG, Haemon w/LFG, VB. Raider = 215pts

Is option one worth the 60 extra points?

I personally find it tough to justify too highly priced units zooming around in our wet paper bags, but thats just me.

mug7703 wrote:

What is the trade-off between the Grots+Haemon tactic for the HB Archon and the Wracks+Haemon tactic for the Archon. A unit with less toughness and effectiveness but it's cheaper and is scoring whilst still allowing the same S4 on the charge for the Archon tactic and still packs two LFGs. Which do people think is better?

4 Grots w/LFG, Haemon w/LFG, VB. Raider = 275pts
8 Wracks w/LFG, Haemon w/LFG, VB. Raider = 215pts

Is option one worth the 60 extra points?

Good point! I think I should try this. But I really appreciate T5 for the Archon and S5 for crushing vehicles, especially those tau skimmers with 3+ cover save from their disruption pods Maybe it's right thing to separate Archon and Grots to specialise them on different stuff. This needs some tests.

Beriadan wrote:

Good point! I think I should try this. But I really appreciate T5 for the Archon and S5 for crushing vehicles, especially those tau skimmers with 3+ cover save from their disruption pods Maybe it's right thing to separate Archon and Grots to specialise them on different stuff. This needs some tests.

Very true. You role less dice when the Raider explodes as well due to there being less models. I think the fact that Wracks are scoring potentially sways it for me. Unless for some reason one's list is maxed out on troops choices. Also 60 points free means another Hameonculi with LFG elsewhere the list potentially buffing a wych squad with FNP. in the would need some testing though I think.