Talos Pain engine

In the games-workshop,one week ago,somebody told me the Talos weapons are AP2 but ,honesty, I didn't see this rule on the rulebook..

Talos is a Monstrous Creature so it's melee attacks benefit from the Smash rule, making them AP2.

That's a very nice reason to choose the Ichor Injector...

AP2, Instant Death...

Balisong wrote:

That's a very nice reason to choose the Ichor Injector...

AP2, Instant Death...

Why? The smash rule gives you AP2 already, and if you use the "smash attacks" (half attacks double strength) then the talos is S10 so can ID anything that is T5 or below. Not to mention the ichor injector means the model has to take a toughness test in order to suffer instant death, anything you can't instant kill with S10 is only going to fail a toughness test on a 6. It's a terrible/pointless option unfortunately.

Good point! Didn't even think about "Smash Attacks".

Balisong wrote:

Good point! Didn't even think about "Smash Attacks".

It makes Talos a lot more reliable against vehicles (combined with the auto hitting S7 hammer of wrath hit), even if you roll a 1 for attacks that's still one S7 hammer of wrath and two S10 smash attacks (one attack divided by two rounded up is one and then you add one for charging). Add that now vehicles are hit on 3s if they move and automatically if they don't move talos can really trash some tanks. The smash attacks are also great for causing instant death on T4-5 models (which means it also ignores FNP). The rounding up is great too, if you roll a three for attacks that gives you the choice of 3+1(for charging) S7 attacks or 2+1(for charging) S10 attacks, you are only loosing one attack in exchange for S10!

I think it should be ok if we use chain with second normal weapon. 1atk for charge + 1 two weapons + 2d6(choose the best dice!).You can destroy an infantry unit in one turn and with feel no pain and AS3 Nobody can stop it.

That's alot of points tied up in melee upgrades when getting a Talos into melee is uncertain enough. It's already pretty good in melee I'd rather go for Twin-Linked Liquifiers and keep it cheap. That's just me though.

Murkglow wrote:

That's just me though.

And me! The Twin-Liquifiers are fantastic.

the liquiefiers is cheap and in according to Murk is uncertain, for this reason you need to destroy the enemy unit straight away..this is just my point of view...

The problem I have with the Talos is first off it competes for a slot with the Ravagers which is hand's down one of our pest performers. Second, it's an anti-infantry MC with no real way to get across the board. If you could assault out of a WWP like you used to, then fine, it would have it's place. As it stands now, good getting across the board 6" at a time.

jb7090 wrote:

Second, it's an anti-infantry MC with no real way to get across the board.

Does it need to get across the board?

It has a 36" range splinter cannon and can sit in midfield where all the objectives are and then your opponent needs to come to you. It's an area denial unit. Start it 12" into the board in area terrain (Monstrous creatures now benefit from area terrain), move it forwards 6" or 6"+d6 (run) if there are no targets, and you are in the middle of the board turn 1-2, and can threaten anything within 18", cause it's not like overwatch bothers a talos, so there is no reason not to try a 10-12" charge. With the liquifiers anything that comes within 20" (6" move + 8" flame template) is going to be in trouble, whilst the 36" range twinlinked splinter cannon can just cut up infantry/oppoents scoring units whilst you sit and wait for your opponent to advance.

I've just had bad luck with them I guess, several times a squad of long fangs popped it turn 1 or 2. I used it very good last edition coming from a WWP. Maybe I just need more practice with it, but for almost the same cost I can have a gunboat ravager.

jb7090 wrote:

I've just had bad luck with them I guess, several times a squad of long fangs popped it turn 1 or 2. I used it very good last edition coming from a WWP. Maybe I just need more practice with it, but for almost the same cost I can have a gunboat ravager.

Monstrous creatures need target saturation. So you need at least two if not three if your run them on foot. That being said even if you field one it will draw a lot of fire away from your raiders. Or you need to make raiders appear as more of a threat (archon with incubi, grotesques etc) so they draw fire away from your Talos.

Hope that helps.

I'll give it a shot, thanks brochacho.

jb7090 wrote:

I'll give it a shot, thanks brochacho.

No worries, the biggest problem with talos is like you said they compete with Ravagers.

elementary question, how do you twin link the LG? do you just reroll the missed wounds? and keep the same AP, or do you need to roll again for the AP?

also, could you pair the baron up with a talos giving it stealth and hit and run? wouldnt that make a hit and run crazy with all the hammer of wrath stuff for a talos? is this even legal?

doomseer11b wrote:

elementary question, how do you twin link the LG? do you just reroll the missed wounds? and keep the same AP, or do you need to roll again for the AP?

also, could you pair the baron up with a talos giving it stealth and hit and run? wouldnt that make a hit and run crazy with all the hammer of wrath stuff for a talos? is this even legal?

TL templates work to re roll wounds, no need to re roll the AP, for good or bad.

You could do that with the baron, I think, would be a waste though.

TL templates work to re roll wounds, no need to re roll the AP, for good or bad.

You could do that with the baron, I think, would be a waste though. [/quote]

well, i guess if the situation was under perfect circumstances could be pretty devastating irght? i wouldnt be building my list around it, but if i have a talos next to a, on the fritz, hellion squad with the baron, might be useful i guess

I think MCs have to remain alone and can not join a unit or be joined by an IC.

Ferox77 wrote:

I think MCs have to remain alone and can not join a unit or be joined by an IC.

ICs can't join units that have a maximum size of 1. So your character can't join a Talos.

I was curious about the real cost of the TL liquifiers. The talos is only listed as having 1 CC weapon, with the option of purchasing another for 15 points. If you replace this single CCW with the Liquifiers do you lose the d6 attacks ?

With the changes in rules to MC I'm very interested in trying out the talos again, even without the WWP. As others mentioned; lurking around in area terrain, waiting to hop out and eat anything that comes too close would be a cheap way for us to control real estate. In an army that depends so much on mobility for survival, a static deterrent would be welcome. Maybe that's just me.

I also figure I can use them late in the game to absorb overwatch for any wych units that survive their new role as 5-man haywire suicide bombers.

TLDR = do you lose the d6 attacks by replacing the CCW with Liquifiers?

stilgar27 wrote:

TLDR = do you lose the d6 attacks by replacing the CCW with Liquifiers?

IMO, no. You're not actually required to have a CCW in order to attack and the Random Attacks rule is not reliant on any particular weapon. AFAIK, you could swap your CCW for TL Liquifiers and still retain the same number of attacks. Only benefit of keeping it is if you buy a further CCW for an extra attack.

EDIT - Confirmed. Pg 51 of rulebook says

Quote :

If a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee type, it is treated as being armed with a single close combat weapon

So you can give up your CCW and still count as having one!

Indeed, a model does not need a ccw to make use of its attack stat (just look at our warriors for example, they don't have a ccw). Just having one ccw does nothing, it's the same as not having one at all. Why does it have one listed then? So you can buy the second ccw and gain a +1 attack for having two. Naturally buying twin-linked liquifiers means you can no longer do this (since you lose the first ccw getting it) but frankly I don't think the extra ccw was worth buying even if you wanted a melee talos so no lose there.

To be honest talos are so good in melee anyway (W5 being the best part) and the twin liquifiers give so much utility (deep strike deterrent, reliable 18-20" range death etc) I find myself hard pressed to consider the other options. The real power of the liquifier is not the damage it does, but what it COULD do, and fear of it's potential is as much a weapon as the liquifier itself.

It might not be scoring, but it can definitely "hold" objectives.