Vect Surprise: Dark Eldar & Space Marines Allies?

Vect used the strategic insersion of Space Marines to take over Commorragh, how could we use them to win our battles?

Remembering the limitation of desperate allies I think it would be best to use the space marine forces in a similar fashion to Vect, i.e a great big distraction. This is where drop pods come in, if you take a single drop pod then following the drop pod assault rules it must come down on turn 1, think of it as a more reliable version of daemonic assault and you won't go far wrong. Fill it with some marines and a HQ choice and you have quite a flexible suicide squad, that can net you first blood as well as being a useful distraction.

The other thing to consider is heavy support choices, as space marines to have access to powerful ranged weapons (Long fangs and Thunderfire cannons come to mind). These can provide invaluable ranged support and in some cases useful bonuses like bolster defences (increasing the cover save of a piece of area terrain in your deployment zone) this can be useful for giving your raiders a better cover save if you don't get first turn (a ruin with bolstered defenses would give raiders in it/behind it a 3+ cover save!). This could be a safer place to keep HQ choices like Rune Priests depending on what powers they roll (twin-linked long fangs ).

There are lots of possibilities, here is a sample Space Wolves allied detachment, that brings a distraction unit, some long ranged fire power and psychic defence.

Rune Priest
10 9 Grey Hunters,2 1 plasma gun, drop pod (space wolf drop pods only have a capacity of 10)
5 long fangs, 4 missile launchers
Total: 410pt

Thoughts? How would you run Space Marines as allies?

Go full Salamanders.

Vulkan He'Stan 190
Command Squad w/ 4 Melta Guns in Drop Pod 190
x10 Tactical Marines w/ 2 Melta Guns in Rhino 210

Total: 590

It's fluffy but I doubt that it would be that effective. Still, I can imagine you ruining a vehicle some non-MEQ infantry like nobody's business. If fortune favors you, you could probably BBQ some infantry without even separating Vulkan from the Command Squad.

I think a selection of 3 pods would work well. Stern guard, tacticals and then I guess a dakka dread, all with pods... Drop the tac and stern with your HQ turn 1 an deploy the dread with its pod coming on at random

I'd prob go with something that's a bit more of a threat so your opponent literally can't ignore it:

Lysander
10 Sternguard, Drop Pod (maybe a couple combi's or an LC on the sarge)
5 Sniper Scouts

Lysander's squad is seriously scary and tough, and he gives you a fortified ruin while scouts are cheap and just infiltrate somewhere annoying and pick out special weapons.

or maybe go Death Company since they can't score anyway:
Reclusiarch or Lib
Death Company in Drop Pod


One thing I've always wanted to try with blood Angels though is:
Lib(swaps for Div)
Furioso or DC Dread w/Blood Talons, extra armor(for Furioso)
Death Company
all in a Storm Raven w/Extra Armor

Simply because I want to see a Blood Talon Dread with re-rolls to hit and to wound

I think dropping a single drop pod full of tactical marines would act as a fantastic distraction and screen. If your enemy spends a turn or two pouring fire into the marines, the volume of fire it will take to put down their 3+ hides will preserve a large number of your far more fragile evil space elves. If the enemy ignores them, punish them with sustained rapid fire bolters to the face. As a screen and a scalpel (capable of severing parts of the army from the whole), I think Mush is really onto something here.

I thought I wasn't going to get to play DE for my summer campaign, but my family has rallied around providing me with pale space elf fetishists for Christmas! I may have to integrate a unit of Space Marines for the lulz.

This is an execellent excuse to resart a space marine army thanks mush!
- wiggly

Bookkeeper wrote:

I think Mush Vect was really onto something here.

Seeing as he came up with the idea first.

On a serious note it has potential, my only concern is that space marine HQ are rather expensive. Space wolves do have access to HQs that cost less than 100pts (wolf guard battle leaders), and grey hunters are a fantastic unit to throw at you enemy, at the same time a rune priest is pretty useful. Blood angels for a more accurate deep-strike? The hard part is not overspending.

I think this works really well, I have played a couple of games with marines as allies having them soak up a lot of fire while we shoot from afar.

I was also considering the Space Wolves as a detachment. Slightly modified though.

So instead of a full 10 man Grey Hunter squad, just 5 (no upgrades or transport) and take a land speeder with more rockets. I believe it works out to roughly the same number of points and I would definitely prefer a land speeder over more regular bolter marines. It's an interesting twist using the drop pod though, an option definitely worth considering.

What does the landspeeder bring that the Dark Eldar Codex doesn't already have access to? That's the question I would put to you.

The thing is those marines can't score so they won't be doing anything without a drop-pod as they are so much slower than the rest of your army. Your opponent will just ignore them. Marines do have one quality and that's being durable, but you need to make them a threat otherwise they will just be ignored, and the drop pod is perfect for that. They are guaranteed to come down on turn 1, in your opponents face. With out the drop pod you have 200+ points of HQ and TROOPS sitting in your backfield looking pretty and contributing very little to the fight at hand.

The thing I take into account when considering desperate allies with DE are:

-Is it fast enough or shooty enough to still be a threat?
-Does it give the army something you can't already get in the DE codex?
-Is the HQ and TROOP tax worth it?

Mush, what's your plan for the rune priest? Really his only option is to hang with the Long Fangs which limits his Psy-defense coverage unless you place them pretty centrally (which doesn't put their long range to good use and makes "One Eye Open" potentially very annoying. I like a lot of that SW detachment but the fact that their drop pods only hold 10 is pretty annoying and makes me drift towards BA and Vanilla marines even though they lack psy defense and aren't as all around awesome as GHs.

Ahh forgot about that old quirk. I would drop a greyhunter and stick him or a battle leader in the pod.

The only thing I would consider from BA is Death Company, they can't score anyway probably give them bolters as they have relentless so can charge after shooting them, and get 4 attacks cause of rage anyway. Other than that grey hunters are just better and cheaper and very flexible (bolter, pistol, chainsword, counter attack, re-roll banner). The main advantage of vanilla marines, is combat tactics which makes them very hard to tie up, as they can just fall back and keep rapid firing their bolters.

The hard part is which HQ to take.

If you want a nice distraction then BA can easily do that for you.

Reclusiarch, Melta Bombs
9 Death Company, Bolters, Power Fist, 2 x Power Weapon
Drop Pod
Death Company Dreadnought, Heavy Flamer, Magna-grapple
Drop Pod, Locator Beacon

600 Points that cannot be ignored.

I was thinking about this to provide both long range AT and close range AI/area threat:

Rune Priest in Terminator Armour w/ Master of Runes and 2 powers

9 Grey Hunters w/ melta and power axe in Drop Pod

6 Long Fangs with 5 missile launchers and Sergeant.
500 points on the dot!

Rune priest goes with the grey hunters to cast living lightning and whatever he rolls on the rulebook powers. GHs drop in w/ priest right in the middle of the enemy lines. They now have 9 MEQ and a TEQ psyker to deal with in their face and have to make a rapid choice-bolter/melta in the face or give them a wide berth forcing separation and allowing me to divide and conquer! The long fangs obviously provide long range anti-tank fire allowing me to focus less on darklight and more on poison and close combat if I so desire.

I now have the fairly simple task of designing a 1500 DE army to compliment the Space Pups. Thoughts?

AE

AiEthimar wrote:

Rune priest goes with the grey hunters to cast living lightning and whatever he rolls on the rulebook powers.

Sounds like a plan. Except you can't take rule book powers and codex powers on the same psycher.

Quote :

A Space Wolves Rune Priest (including Njal Stormcaller) may
use the psychic disciplines found in the Warhammer 40,000
rulebook, instead of those in Codex: Space Wolves. If he does so,
generate two new powers from the Biomancy, Divination or
Telekinesis disciplines (in any combination) before armies are
deployed. - Space Wolf FAQ

Also, doesn't terminator armour take up 2 slots in a vehicle? So 8 grey hunters and a liby in terminator armour.

Still a great idea. I think I will try it out in my next game. It's 2400 points, so enough space for some space Puppis. The only problem I have with allies in general is that they take up so many points...

So onto list building now!

Crap, thanks Mush and Crazy! That's what I get for trying to include any form of allied detachment .

AE

the rune priest can take runic armour just loose the the 5++ making the 9 GH viable.

i have used a battle leader with saga of hunter with 10 GH 2 meltas and a p axe to out flank, with acute senses you reroll the outflank dice giving a better chance of coming on were you want em, you also get stealth with this so improves cover if you can get to it.

i like the thought of the drop pod and will try that i think in my next game. will use 10 GH 2 melta in drop pod, battle leader with sage hunter with LF (armed with missile launchers) in cover points cost=205 for GH and drop pod, 115=LF, 80=BL total 400 points for 2 squads you cant ignore

Mushkilla wrote:

What does the landspeeder bring that the Dark Eldar Codex doesn't already have access to? That's the question I would put to you.

The thing is those marines can't score so they won't be doing anything without a drop-pod as they are so much slower than the rest of your army. Your opponent will just ignore them. Marines do have one quality and that's being durable, but you need to make them a threat otherwise they will just be ignored, and the drop pod is perfect for that. They are guaranteed to come down on turn 1, in your opponents face. With out the drop pod you have 200+ points of HQ and TROOPS sitting in your backfield looking pretty and contributing very little to the fight at hand.

The thing I take into account when considering desperate allies with DE are:

-Is it fast enough or shooty enough to still be a threat?
-Does it give the army something you can't already get in the DE codex?
-Is the HQ and TROOP tax worth it?

Absolutely, the 5 marines is a minor tax. Also, absolutely agree that the landspeeder does not add something the Dark Eldar don't have access to. The reason I take the Landspeeder is because in my MSU build I've actually run out of slots that would provide more high strength shots (2 missle launchers). So while I do like Reavers (maybe not as much as you do) I think the SW Landspeeder is a good value.

I've found so far that with the way rapid fire now works, I can use Marines or other troops more aggressively and they will get in range a lot easier. As for the HQ, the fact its sitting back does not mean it is sitting pretty. In fact the Rune priest is quite happy to be in the backfield because he is either making the long fangs twinlinked or he is using Jaws aka Line of Death. So I don't view the Rune Priest as any sort of tax.

I do like the idea of using a drop pod, I'm just really reluctant in investing in grey hunters because they are, to me, disposable.

How do you get jaws and rerolls on your psyker? You sadly can not mix codex powers and rulebook powers.

I will be trying out vanilla marines, as I love to drop my ironclad cybot as a detraction into the enemy's lines. Armour 13 really makes a difference, well it did in 5th.

Crazy

I tried using a SM drop-pod ally in my last game. They dropped in behind a Brood Mother, 2 Hive Guard and a Venomthrope. They successfully tied up the Hive Guard, killing one & preventing them from downing any of my transports. Sadly, after that 3 died to the drop-pod exploding spectacularly and the rest fell to fire from the Gaunts spawned.

Not sure if they were worth the points/effort or not. The reliability of the drop pod was useful, as you can place it pretty much anywhere, and in the first turn. They didn't have anything that could hurt the Brood Mother, but they did prevent the Guard from downing either a Raider or SC-laden Venom.

Ulcis wrote:

Not sure if they were worth the points/effort or not. The reliability of the drop pod was useful, as you can place it pretty much anywhere, and in the first turn. They didn't have anything that could hurt the Brood Mother, but they did prevent the Guard from downing either a Raider or SC-laden Venom.

By brood mother Im guessing you mean a tervigon, but did you not have melta, Plas, powerfist, or meltabomb? Heck, even bolters need 6s to wound, but its atleast something. Also in close combat against MCs, you can use your grenades, which means you need 4s to wound with kraks, and 2 with meltabombs

Ok just played my first game with Space Wolves as allies.

My army consisted of
Haemonculus
3 Trueborn 3 man squads 2 Lances + Venoms with double splinter cannons (empty)
3 Wrack squads 3 man squads + Venoms with double splinter cannons (2 were empty)
2 Warrior squads 5 man squads with blaster + Venoms with double splinter cannons
3 Reavers with Heat Lance
Ravager (3 Dark Lances)
Razorwing
Aegis + Quad Gun (manned by weaponless Wracks)

Rune Priest
7 man grey hunters with a melta and drop pod
6 longfangs with 5 missle launchers

This is a very alpha strike list and I did win the roll off (he did not steal).

The drop pod did add a lot of pressure on him but the real star was the twin-linked Long Fang unit. Rune priest casts Prescience (default power under Divination) and the unit will split fire 3-2 missles. Pretty mean combo upfront but the drop pod really is nice to deliver a melta/distract them from firing at my Venoms/min trueborn squads.

Long story short, I played against my friends double Heldrake list (killed one via Interceptor) and easily won the game.

Count Adhemar wrote:

If you want a nice distraction then BA can easily do that for you.

Reclusiarch, Melta Bombs
9 Death Company, Bolters, Power Fist, 2 x Power Weapon
Drop Pod
Death Company Dreadnought, Heavy Flamer, Magna-grapple
Drop Pod, Locator Beacon

600 Points that cannot be ignored.

The Death Company would make pretty cute allies - Desperate Allies? Can't score anyway! - but unfortunately Dark Eldar can't ally with Blood Angels

Creeping Darkness wrote:

The Death Company would make pretty cute allies - Desperate Allies? Can't score anyway! - but unfortunately Dark Eldar can't ally with Blood Angels

Very good point.