QUESTION ON ELDRAD AND DE

would this not be a great tactic against a mech list;

everyone hates eldritch storm, horrible against troops yes, but with targeting vehicles may actually be one of the best assets on the board. I used to do this with my buddies all the time when i played Eldar, we are not tourney players so please correct any legality issues that may fit.

- im planning on running eldrad along side 2 Talos pain engines (twin LG's, and twin Haywire Blasters -thanks mush).
- i plan on keeping old rules, as i like them and well i dont like randomness in my game i like to KNOW as much as i can before building my list. plus the original powers are pretty viable in this edition i would assume (correct me if im wrong)
- so, according to the eldritch rules, you place a large template on any enemy model, and roll for scatter. assuming it doesnt scatter off the model in the middle of nowhere, it hits causing the vehicle(s) (depends if it scattered onto another vehicle as well) to scatter in the direction of the scatter dice and gives it a 2D6+3 hit (not bad in 6th edition for glancing).

- so all in all, this has hopefully given a chance for my haywire blasters to get back armor on a vehicle at 10AV. so there strength 4 now has a glancing chance. but it also denies the enemy from disembarking (and assaulting) from that transport. and being that eldrad is eldrad, he has an additional 2 powers he can cast. whether it be fortune or guide, as you cannot doom passengers in a vehicle or vehicles themselves.

2D6+3 isn't really a good hit in 6th any more then it was in 5th. On average its a glance vs AV10 but it can vary wildly and half the time do nothing at all even to AV10. As for the scatter dice changing its facing, again you can't count on it working but even more, if you're going with Haywire on Talos then what do you care what facing it is? Haywire cares almost not at all if the enemy has AV10 or AV14, it glances/pens all equally.

Honestly it sounds like a complete waste of time. You'd probably get much more benefit out of Guiding a couple squads or Dooming some others then to waste your charges casting Eldritch Storm.

True, it won't pen or glance any more, but it turns viechle around in direction of arrow on scatter die..... that's got to be a plus...

i disagree respectfully Murkglow. I like the fact that it causes the vehicles to move so they cant assault that turn and also, it gives a chance for the haywire grenades to do double damage. they would get a glance for the haywre, and also glances for the strength 4 hit. its a little up there, but its always nice to have eldrad around, ANYWHERE he may be, and since he cant go in any of our transports, why not keep the talos safe??? and try and help the wyches by keeping the troops from geting out until WE FORCE THEM to come out

so in essence, you may glance once with eldritch storm (MAY), may glance with the strength of haywire, and may glance or blow up with the haywire itself. thats 3 chances pretty much in one shot. i like those odds

You "may" glance 3 times sure, but 2 of those 3 are probably not going to glance or even potentially do anything at all. Just because you technically have "3 chances" doesn't mean those chances are all equal or that you have even remotely good odds. If we were talking Ravager Dark Lances which "may" glance 3 times and indeed have a very good chance of glancing each time then that would be "good odds." Betting on a single S4 rolling a 6, a scatter dice pointing where you want it to, or a 2D6 rolling a 7+ doesn't sound anything like good odds to me.

Still you're free to do as you like, but I don't see this as anything remotely approaching "shutting down" mech lists (it's not like it got any better then it was last edition and last edition it was never used, maybe for a good reason).

[quote=Still you're free to do as you like, but I don't see this as anything remotely approaching "shutting down" mech lists (it's not like it got any better then it was last edition and last edition it was never used, maybe for a good reason).[/quote]

true, shutting down is a little optimistic. however, being that (mine will be) Talos are usually in the middle to begin with, Eldrad being there with them to support anything going in my opinion is pretty good. I am in no means implying this is ALL I would bring as AT. and i disagree with it not being used before. i just dont think a lot of people used it for targeting vehicles. like i said, i mainly used it to move vehicles prohibiting assaults from non- assault vehicles. hence, shutting "some" of it down lol. Stopping the opponent from anything they are "attempting" to do is always good in my opinion.

and the reason why i said it was better in 6th edition, is that glancing didnt mean anything and now it does. i will take better precautions next time when labeling my posts. that was an overstatement

I run Eldrad in my Dark Eldar / Eldar list and I've never had much success with Eldritch storm. Although, I run him with a harlequin squad so he doesn't do much shooting. When I do use his shooting psychic powers it tends to be Mind War which IS random but usually reliable I've come to find.

Wouldn't a better strategy be to pop the transports with your ravagers / lance weapons. Have liquifier guns / splinter cannons on your pain engines and go that route? Most things hiding in a transport I would love for them to charge my pain engine. What the templates don't kill your poison weapons can usually handle

doomseer11b wrote:

twin LG's, and twin Haywire Blasters -thanks mush

To be honest I really prefer the splinter cannons on the talos. I just find they have a lot more utility. But that's just my personal preference.

As for using Eldritch storm I'm not quite sure how it stops the contents of a transport from assaulting. Am I missing something?

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As for using Eldritch storm I'm not quite sure how it stops the contents of a transport from assaulting. Am I missing something?

well i was to understand that if a vehicle, non-assault, has moved they cannot assault that turn. i dont know if the rules have changed. but thats why i always used it against tank spammers.

I don't believe moving them on your turn affects them on their turn.

..... well....... hmmm. well just makin sure you guys are paying attention.... jk. well fudge man, been playin that wrong for a while. thankfully never been to a tournament. oh well, thanks for correcting me i guess. sorry for the wasted time here =(

Don't worry about it, it happens, besides sometimes people miss things, and what at first seems to be a crazy suggestion turns out to be gold dust!

Murkglow wrote:

I don't believe moving them on your turn affects them on their turn.

Moreover, the BDB (page 71, left column) says:

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Pivoting on the spot alone does not count as moving.

So even if moving them in your turn did affect them, spinning them with Eldritch Storm does not count as moving.

Also just so you know, any unit that disembarks from a non-assault vehicle cannot charge in its next assault phase (whether the vehicle moved or not). So if you guys have been playing it wrong (as your posts would suggest) you basically just got the effect you were looking for from Eldritch Storm for free lol.

(in 5th you could assault after disembarking from a stationary vehicle but not in 6th)

doomseer11b wrote:

horrible against troops yes

Actually if you were going to use Eldritch Storm for whatever reason this is probably the best use.

Which is unfortunate since I and the other people I'm discussing this with would probably only ever take a Farseer in an army which includes lots of Venoms - a far seerperior alternative for infantry killing.

Sorry, I just wanted to make that pun. On the other hand, it's rather useful if you want to trade for Prescience so you can avoid discussions over what constitutes an Eldar unit. Sure, I'll "cast Guide" on the Ravager!

Good thing the "what counts as an Eldar unit" thing has been mostly answered then.

i was under the impression, all Eldar goodness could be used for DE as well. is this incorrect?

doomseer11b wrote:

i was under the impression, all Eldar goodness could be used for DE as well. is this incorrect?

Powers that target "Eldar units/models" do not work on DE units/models. The exception to this is that a DE character who joins an Eldar unit would benefit from any powers cast on that unit. Does not work with Eldar characters joining DE units though!

so im assuming this is why people are using the prescience and all that jazz? dang, so its pretty much doom and mind war that we can use?

Basically you can't use Fortune or Guide on non-Eldar units. Guide has a better version available automatically in the Divination school (Prescience) but there is no real replacement for Fortune sadly. Still, the other Divination powers are pretty good and with Eldrad you get 4 rolls so you have a decent chance of getting some good stuff.

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everyone hates eldritch storm, horrible against troops yes, but with targeting vehicles may actually be one of the best assets on the board.

Well actually the only decent use i get out of Eldritch storm is when you roll vehicles to expose their side armor. That is really usefull if you have lots of scatter lasers, cause S6 is massively better when firing at AV10 then AV11-12. (and if you are playing CWE chances are you are having lot of them).

As for the damage itself it is puny.