Sniper Trueborn

Query I wanted to run by people. I'm thinking of trying to get a little bit extra anti-armour into my force, and was contemplating a double dark lance trueborn squad. My queries are multiple, however:

1) Is the concept viable, or are the other ways of getting darklight (e.g. Ravagers, free lance on raiders, blasters in venom squads) just better?

2) Is it better to keep it cheap (so 3x trueborn, 2x dark lance), or add one or two squaddies as ablative wounds?

3) Is it worth taking a dual splinter cannon venom with them, either as a transport another unit can pinch or just as something to fly around, shoot things, and just generally be a bit of a nuisance?

Thanks in advance

1. It is viable, but also the other methods are probably better. It's just a question of what you're doing with the other slots and how much you need more lances as compared to maybe more blasters.

2. I personally run it cheap when I do it - if I have extra points I'm going to be buying a Venom, not useless ablative wounds.

3. Again, this depends on the rest of your army. The classic mini sniper squad would buy the transport though, because our transports are good.

Like Thor said. It depends on if you need the extra lance range as opposed to more blasters.
My current list needs the lance range more than an extra shot from a blaster born unit.
So I run 3 TB with 2 lances in a duel cannon venom. The squad never actually deploys in the venom.

I love this tb set up. It has worked great so far. Although I do love having 3 unit of 3 blasterborn all in duel cannons. Yummm

i have used 3 squads of TB, all 3 man squads, 2 with 2XDL and the last with 2XSC in my local arena this has served really well. the small squad size makes hiding them easy and i normally get them to overlook as many objectives as possible so i dont have to move them.

i have also in the past kept them in their venom transports, as they come with FF as standard you dont need to move for jink. with NS you can pile more frustration on the enemy, whilst having mobility means you need 6 to hit can be useful if a combat squad gets close

Without a venom these guys can't be expected to last long unless you manage to block LOS to them, I learned that the hard-givingawaykillpoints-way. Even a good cover save wont keep 3 T3 models from being wiped out.

Like others have said, they're useful for bringing more ranged lances if that's what you need and potentially a cheeky splinter cannon or two from a venom.

Only if you keep them in the venom, either the venom or trueborn are going to waste their shooting e.g splinter cannons at a chimera or dark lances at infantry platoons. Plus its cheaper to get a ravager.

So yes its viable, but personally I'd rather have a ravager. If you have no heavy support slots free or you want a cheap couple of footslogging dark lances then go for it.

Why is it wasting shots to have them in the venom? They are separate units and thus can fire at different targets... So open the chimera with the lance born and poison the occupants with the venom.

1) Definitely viable I think the Ravagers are the most economical means of getting Dark Lances. I think sniper born are the next best and then warriors/Raiders etc. So if you're looking for more and don't want to field a Ravager then sniperborn would be the next suggestion.

2) I don't put any more bodies in that squad. A couple of reasons, too low armour, too low toughness, too high cost. You really do not gain much for the points you're paying by having the extra wounds.

3) It's not so much that you're buying it for the Trueborn but rather you are wondering if the points cost of the Venom is worth it alone. Unless you're using it as a gun platform (mounted but not moving) the Venom would be independent of the Trueborn.

On it's own a double splinter cannon venom is normally well worth the points. By the sound of your 3rd question it seems as though you already know the answer.

As a side note, I think there are valid reasons to not take a Ravager instead of sniperborn that does not have to do with availability of heavy slots. For one thing, the Ravager is a huge model and can be easily shot all the time. But I think the Ravager discussion can be had another time.

I run them every now and then. They are a decent unit to add some long range AT to. Combine that with a venom, and you can either put them in cover (and remember to go to ground with them) or leave them in the venom. Its up to you.

I've been toying with an idea using a small unit of true born with dark lances up in a bastion. That way they will ignore everything except the most heavy anti tank shots and in the meantime they will have a great line of sight.
I havn't had the chance to feel this one out my self yet though =)

Druchii wrote:

I've been toying with an idea using a small unit of true born with dark lances up in a bastion. That way they will ignore everything except the most heavy anti tank shots and in the meantime they will have a great line of sight.
I havn't had the chance to feel this one out my self yet though =)

I'll just shoot the bastion and kill the elves that way. My buddy did that to me. I am anti bastion now. Well anti putting my valuble guys in it

I've never run Sniper Trueborn before, but If I do I think I'll go for starting them off in a venom and then dropping them in cover.

colinsherlow wrote:

Druchii wrote:

I've been toying with an idea using a small unit of true born with dark lances up in a bastion. That way they will ignore everything except the most heavy anti tank shots and in the meantime they will have a great line of sight.
I havn't had the chance to feel this one out my self yet though =)

I'll just shoot the bastion and kill the elves that way. My buddy did that to me. I am anti bastion now. Well anti putting my valuble guys in it

You got a point there. On the other hand you have to put some serious fire power into that Bastion. If you put the true borns in anything else, not counting transports and then stay out of harms way, small arms fire will do the trick. =)

I started running them as 5 in a raider with night shields. Ablative wounds when the raider dies and keeps them alive and mobile if needed. Also just as effective against flyers if you need to move!

The ablative wounds are a lie.

How so? Means the 2 lances almost always survive the raiders death

Raider explodes.

3 Trueborn w. 2 Lances in Raider explosion = 3 hits = 2 wounds = 1.33 after armor saves = 1.66 lances alive.
4 Trueborn w. 2 Lances in Raider explosion = 4 hits = 2.66 wounds = 1.77 after armor saves = 2 lances alive.
5 Trueborn w. 2 Lances in Raider explosion = 5 hits = 3.33 wounds = 2.22 after armor saves = 2 lances alive.

So to save .33 lances you want to spend 24 points.
If that is really important to you at least save yourself 12 points and only field 4 Trueborn since it will still leave you with the leadership check issue but still "protects" he lance just as much.
But explosions inflict wounds via squad size - therefore ablative wounds are...not really that ablative, because each extra wound is also an extra chance for a wound to be inflicted.

Druchii wrote:

colinsherlow wrote:

Druchii wrote:

I've been toying with an idea using a small unit of true born with dark lances up in a bastion. That way they will ignore everything except the most heavy anti tank shots and in the meantime they will have a great line of sight.
I havn't had the chance to feel this one out my self yet though =)

I'll just shoot the bastion and kill the elves that way. My buddy did that to me. I am anti bastion now. Well anti putting my valuble guys in it

You got a point there. On the other hand you have to put some serious fire power into that Bastion. If you put the true borns in anything else, not counting transports and then stay out of harms way, small arms fire will do the trick. =)

Lol! Bastions aren't so tough when you have lances ;-)

Another good point =)
This is just my humble opinion. And I personally can count the number of games against another "lance-army" on one hand, so in that manner i'm quite inexperienced.

Your milage may vary though ^^

Most armies has something that can tackle AV 14 in one way or another.At the same time some armies excels far better than other when it comes to bubble wrap those AV14 "thingy" (be it bastions or tanks). Dark Eldar who many times lives by their speed is one of the weaker armies to do this probably (?)
This all leads to a conclusion that I probably neither would field a Bastion in a non-friendly game or in a total TAC-list. Partly because the reason noted above but mainly because the DE dex contains both more effective and cheaper ways to add anti tank capabilities to the list =)

Regarding the Bastions dying on you, have you tried using a Skyshield Landing Pad? Same points cost, you get a 4++ save for anyone on it, and it counts as terrain instead of a "real" building (no armor value).