1650 mixed list, triple pain engine

Like I mentioned in my intro post in General Discussion, I want to make a mostly coven army that would do well against my regular opponents, meaning: almost no flyers, lots of low-mid range shooting, somewhat plasma heavy, not so many vehicles. We usually play 1650 points, hence the wierd number.

The design idea was to first and foremost have an archon grotball that would make it to CC, have at least one unit of wracks (they're just such awesome models), have pain engines (again, love those models) and then build around that. Also, I already have a battleforce and a talos so wanted to incorporate those into the list. Of course, I was trying to cover all corners, bearing in mind what I'll be facing. Here's what I came up with:

[mention][/mention] wrote:

HQ (220pts)

Archon; Huskblade, Venom Blade, PGL, Shadow field
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Venom Blade

Elites (361pts)

3 Grotesques with Liquifier Gun
1 Aberration with Venom Blade (VB for extra attacks since Archon will be taking challanges and deliver ID with huskblade)
Raider with Enhanced Aethersails

3 X Kabalite Trueborn with 2 X Splinter Cannon
Venom with FF, NS, SC

Troops (590pts)

10 X Kabalite Warriors
Raider, Splinter Racks

5 X Wracks, Liquifier Gun
Raider

4 X Wyches, Haywire grenades
1 X Hekatrix, Haywire grenades, Venom Blade
Venom with FF, NS, SC

4 X Wyches, Haywire grenades
1 X Hekatrix, Haywire grenades, Venom Blade
Venom with FF, NS, SC

Fast Attack (162pts)

6 X Reaver Jetbikes, 2 X Blaster

Heavy Support (310pts)

Cronos Parasite Engine, Spirit Vortex

Talos Pain Engine, Twin-Linked Liquifier gun, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon

Talos Pain Engine, Twin-Linked Liquifier gun, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon

OK, so this list is probably a bit unorthodox, seeing as there is so few dark lances but let me give you a quick breakdown of my logic

- I have a deathstar unit that will dominate pretty much anything it can come accross in CC, so that's fun
- I have a scoring unit at home just chillin, but can just as well get into the raider to do some serious poison damage
- I have jetbikes with blasters for mobile AT as well as linebreaker potential/bladevane harassment
- I have 3 super tough MC fire magnets that stroll through the battlefield like a boss, delivering pain tokens
- I have a dedicated AI venom with trueborn for long range poison death
- I have 2 mobile AT + supporting CC units in the form of wyches
- I have a forward objective claimer in the form of wracks
- It should be fun to play and will definitely look awesome!

Basic strategy would be to:

- deploy warriors in cover and give them pina coladas since they won't be doing much this game. I'm also thinking reserves, but then I'd miss out on the raider shooting (though it's just 1 lance...)
- push the grotball forward with sails, very possibly on a flank to mitigate ranged damage
- push my MCs forward through the middle to establish mid field presence and take the heat away from other units + distribute pain tokens
- tank hunt with reavers and wyches
- keep the trueborn at max range for dakka
- keep wracks in the back for the first half of the game and just join the trueborn for SC goodness but then sprint forward to claim objectives. They'd also function as a counter assault unit, protecting the warriors from deep striking shenanigans

This list still has 7 points left but, at this point, I don't really know where to put them best.

So what do you guys think?

I am running a list that is not all that different right now, though I am currently running 3 Taloi. From my experience running a very similar list I would make the following suggestions:

IMHO you need at least one more troop unit. I would drop the trueborn in favor of another warrior squad in a Venom or Raider. (I would lean towards a Raider as the list is a bit light, even given that your local scene doesn't sport all that much in the way of vehicles.)

I run the exact same Grotesque unit. You are dead-on in my opinion using the VB on the aberation. A re-rollable 2+ to wound weapon and extra attack is pretty boss in action. I use the exact same Haemi with the unit. Where I do differ in tactics is with the Archon. I use the unit without a big kitted out HQ(Haemi only). This unit does enough damage on its own without such an expensive HQ. Given the majority of missions using objectives I find the additional troop unit to FAR more useful. You have great distraction units that your opponent can't ignore while your more fragile units grab objectives.

Hope this helps!

ESE

I want to have an archon there to be able to take some ID wounds on his 2++. I know that not many things will ID T5, but the unit is kind of the centerpiece of this army so I want it well protected

I get your point with the troops, but I just love the idea of having 20 poison shots at 36' from the trueborn

Any ideas on where the last 7 points could go?

rotforge wrote:

I want to have an archon there to be able to take some ID wounds on his 2++. I know that not many things will ID T5, but the unit is kind of the centerpiece of this army so I want it well protected

This would work better in 5th. Unfortunately in 6th the easiest way to do it is to put the Archon up front, in which case he'll take all shots and his 2++ will probably short out pretty quickly.

I suppose you could put the Aberration up front and then LOS! on to the Archon (if he's closest) - would that work?

OR, I could just LOS! the regular low str/ap shots onto grots and only tank the heavy hits. So first of all, those bolter or whatever str 4/5 shots would have to get through T5, fail a 2+ LOS! followed by a 2++ which would mean being bad luck brian unlucky EVEN THEN I still have 3 wounds to chew through.

Yeah, true you could run the Archon out front, still benefit from T5, and LOS! anything that wasn't S10. I suppose the T5 will reduce the number of wounding hits, and thus the number of LOS! rolls necessary, but if you get hit enough then you will be failing some of these.

Overall, it looks like a solid list to me, though I'm not particularly impressed with Splinterborn - I'd probably follow ESE's advice and get more Troops.

I tuned down my list for 1200 points to be able to field the army a bit quicker and get faster into the action What do you think?

[mention][/mention] wrote:

HQ (185pts)

Archon - PGL, Shadow field, Venom Blade

Haemonculus - Liquifier Gun, Venom Blade

Elites (183pts)

3 X Incubi + Klavex with Onslaught
Venom, FF, Splinter Cannon

Troops (450pts)

10 x Kabalite Warrior
Raider, Nightshield, Splinter Racks

8 X Wracks - Liquifier Gun
Raider, Enhanced Aethersails

5 X Wyches - 5x Haywire grenades
Venom FF, Splinter Cannon

Fast Attack (162pts)

6 X Reaver Jetbikes - 2x Blaster

Heavy Support (220pts)

Ravager - 3 X Dark Lance, Nightshield

Talos Pain Engine - Twin-Linked Liquifier gun, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon

I'd really like to add demiklaives to the Klavex but can't seem to find 20 points, as the list is exactly 1200 at this point. Maybe shave off 2 wracks? What would you guys suggest?

I was thinking about putting haemmy with archon and incubi at the start (out of transport) to give them a pain token and then move him over to wracks. This way, both CC units will have fnp.

My suggestion would be, if you really want the Demiklaives, to drop the FF from the 2 Venoms. They get Jink and you should be able to hide them Turn 1 if you go second. I would further suggest dropping the Klaivex totally and just getting an extra Incubi. I think the extra body is worth more than an occasional extra attack(unless you want the Klaivex for challenges). Not sure on the points but I think you could get a ninth Wrack then as well.

Can't really take extra bodies since they'll be riding in a venom with the archon. Also, I like the idea of onslaught - on paper at least - will it make up for an extra body?

And I can't really take FF off venoms since it's built in Battlescribe posts it automatically and I forgot to delete it.

Duh, you are right it is included. I have my codex with me now so I can see what you are talking about a bit better. The numbers for Onslaught are: 13 attacks on the charge, 8.666 hits, 1.44 6's to wound, so about 1 and a half extra attacks on the charge. After charging it goes down to 1 extra attack/round. If you really want the Demiklaives then about the only thing I see to drop would be Onslaught and the Aethersails or the Nightshields. Points are pretty tight in this list.

Hmm I guess I'll drop onslaught. Those numbers convinced me I guess it would be much better with a squad of 9-10.

That is the way it goes with many of the upgrades. They sound quite impressive on paper but if you really look at what you are getting for the cost it is usually better to just spend the points on more models.