What am I missing about Wyches

Ok so today was my first games with DE.

I had a unit of 9 wyches with Haywires in a venom.

They charged into a Necron Character (Not remembering his name right now.)

But here is what happened.

I charged in with 9 dudes. 27 attacks (1 stat + 1 for 2 ccw + 1 for charging x 9 bodies = 27)

I ended up hitting with 12 but needed 6's to wound (str 3 VS tough 5).

I dealt 2 wounds which he saved easily. The squad then stood there and played patty cake till the end of the game with the character.



I know throwing a grenade helps.... but I just feel like i am missing something pretty obvious and I don't know.



I am a nid player but trying out a new army. Any help would be great.

Moved topic to tactics. ~TLRonin

Unfortunately wyches aren't as fabulous in combat as one would hope, especially against a high toughness characters/units.

A few things I've found help a great deal which you haven't mentioned:

Squad leader with a Venom blade, although it doesn't help much if your whacking a guy with a 2+ Sv

Combat drugs, don't forget to roll for and use them, they can make a lot of difference with the right roll, especially against high toughness

Pistols, pew pew before charging, and as you said get a plasma grenade in there too

Hope this is of some help

Like skye said. The power of wyches doesn't lie in their ability to kill, particularly high toughness foes. (though they make mincemeat of opponents like guard or many inquisitors). Their potency is in staying power.

A good sized squad can tar pit an opponent for an entire game.

One thing i should point out from your post.... you can only fit 5 men in a venom (did you mean perhaps a raider?).

That said, look at it from this perspective, your wyches cost you around 100 points. And for that 100 points, you bogged his character down for the entire game! That can be a huge tactical advantage, particularly with powerful characters.

Welcome to The Dark City.

Their offensive power can be underwhelming. But you have to understand the role they play (or can play) in your army.

A lot of archons use them as tarpitters because of their 4++ save in CC. With 'relative' cheap troops you can keep your enemy's most expensive elite CC unit busy for a round or 2/3. Give a Hekatrix an agoniser and you'll be actually able to pack some punches.

A lot of archons use them as throwaway tankhunters. A squad of 5 wyches, give 'm haywire grenades, put them in a Venom and flatout towards nearest tank. The tank will be destroyed, almost guaranteed.

Main thing to remember is, they are relatively cheap troops. Don't expect them to take down elite CC units.

Skye26 wrote:

Squad leader with a Venom blade, although it doesn't help much if your whacking a guy with a 2+ Sv

At least you'll be forcing him to roll more saves and therefore more chance of failure. Weight of attacks will almost always be the most efficient way of removing something with an excellent save if you lack the ability to bypass that save.

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Weight of attacks will almost always be the most efficient way of removing something with an excellent save if you lack the ability to bypass that save.

This, this is too true. It has to fail that save sometime right ^.^


I made the mistake of drastically overestimating Wyches ability to kill -
and after having a little daydream about how my super skilled chicks would duck and dive, avoiding blows like the wind, finding that small weakness to take down the foe, i would foolishly charge into things such as Tyranids and Ork nobs,
Reality - overwatch kills a couple, wyches charge and cause 3 wounds, enemy saves, retaliates, dead wyches QQ

Also on numerous occasions I've haywire'd a tank, destroyed it, and have it explode in my face killing most my poor girls lol

I'm a little more realistic now and remember their only 75pts a squad. but for 75pts they can be the biggest pain in the backside for my foe.

Skye26 wrote:

Also on numerous occasions I've haywire'd a tank, destroyed it, and have it explode in my face killing most my poor girls lol

I've been pretty lucky with explosions as 99% of the time the vehicles are wrecked due to glances rather than exploded. I have however been completely wiped out by overwatch fire on a couple of occasions when charging a walker

Yeah me too. Most of the time they get wrecked.

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I've been pretty lucky with explosions as 99% of the time the vehicles are wrecked due to glances rather than exploded. I have however been completely wiped out by overwatch fire on a couple of occasions when charging a walker

I have to say i'm the opposite, 99% of the time mine get roasted lol

I have on two occasions had an epic moment where a Wych had her squad killed and as the sole survivor went to charge a dreadnought, threw a haywire, penetrated and destroyed it

The other and the best was a similar scenario, squad down to one from a Ork Jet fighter fire, passed her moral got in range to throw a grenade (yep i know a long shot) and bam triple 6! Flyer goes down, my opponents face was brilliant.

I guess for wyches, in fact for DE in general, it's a darn good job we can cheat death! lol
I bet Hemonculi have weird life insurance adds on whatever kind of T.V there is in Commorragh paha!

I have been running Wyche squads in Raiders with haemys, they have either done very well or terribly in my experience. I have had times where 9 wyches with haywires have failed to kill walkers and times where they have smashed right through.

I kinda wish that they were more predictable and i am still learning what to throw them into as I go. My experience is never put them against Daemon flesh hounds! but then nothing I put against 20 flesh hounds took them down in one of my games, they ate 2x9 wyches, 20 Kabalite Warriors, 5 Wracks and a Talos...

I have no trouble getting them into combat so long as the Raider survives turn one, especially when I put a haemy in the Raider with them. though I have completely mixed results from them once in combat.

keeblerpowell wrote:

Ok so today was my first games with DE.
I dealt 2 wounds which he saved easily. The squad then stood there and played patty cake till the end of the game with the character.
Moved topic to tactics. ~TLRonin

In my mind the Wyches have done their job perfectly by not breaking and running. Necron HQs in general are a pain, and having one bogged down not able to do anything the rest of the game is a worthy contribution.

another couple questions....

How many wyches can throw grenades? I thought just one.

How many can assult with grenades? I thought just one.
Can you use the grenades in the assault even if you didnt charge that turn?


Thanks again for all of the info guys.... again I am a tyranid player. Grenades are COMPLETLY new to me! lol

keeblerpowell wrote:

How many wyches can throw grenades? I thought just one.

Correct

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How many can assult with grenades? I thought just one.

They all can but only get 1 attack each

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Can you use the grenades in the assault even if you didnt charge that turn?

yes

Count Adhemar wrote:

keeblerpowell wrote:

How many wyches can throw grenades? I thought just one.

Correct

Quote :

How many can assult with grenades? I thought just one.

They all can but only get 1 attack each

Quote :

Can you use the grenades in the assault even if you didnt charge that turn?

yes

Ok. Thanks count.

This makes things a little better.

Wyches are superb vehicle killers. They are not quite so good against non-vehicles but can still tarpit a unit due to their 4++ save in close combat. Outside of combat, they're made of tissue paper so be very careful!

I still have experimenting to do. This was my first DE game.

I do like the ravagers. These seem pretty good.

Still not sure on wracks. They got shot up pretty good while trying to camp an objective. FNP doesnt help when being pelted for 3 turns with ap 2 shots!! lol


Razorwing was really cool. (My opponent had a character that allowed him to control one of my vehicles. We assumed this was a legal target. He used it to kill the rest of one of my kabilite squads and wasted the last 2 of my missles in the process. lol. It was a friendly game so I couldnt do anything but laugh, shake my fist, and drink my opponents beer!! lol)

Thanks for all the help everyone.

You guys are killer.

keeblerpowell wrote:

I had a unit of 9 wyches with Haywires in a venom.

venom only can carry 5 guys, though i think you mean raider

keeblerpowell wrote:

I do like the ravagers. These seem pretty good.

best range AT we have

keeblerpowell wrote:

Still not sure on wracks. They got shot up pretty good while trying to camp an objective. FNP doesn't help when being pelted for 3 turns with ap 2 shots!! lol

AP2 shots no not ignore FNP in 6th, only weapons that ID them, they can be decent holding objectives if they are far enough away, and don't forget to go to ground and make that cover save(if any) better as they will not be shooting/charging anyone anyways. although i have found them better at monster hunting in CC(would wound the over-lord on a 4+ as opposed to the wyches 6+)

keeblerpowell wrote:

another couple questions....

How many wyches can throw grenades? I thought just one.

If you take any Wyches with Razorflails, Shard net or Hyrdra Gauntlets, use one of them to throw the grenade. By upgrading to those weapons they lose their Splinter Pistol.

I like to tie up, lets say, terminators till my Incubi get into range or depending on the game type allow my other units to get past them or just allow my other units to focus on other targets. Terminators are nasty and can take up all your focus.

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keeblerpowell wrote:




I had a unit of 9 wyches with Haywires in a venom.




venom only can carry 5 guys, though i think you mean raider

Quite correct sir.

keeblerpowell wrote:

I couldnt do anything but laugh, shake my fist, and drink my opponents beer!! lol)

Well played, sir. Well played.

Also if your looking to expand your army with new units i strongly recommend some reaver jetbikes with upgraded bladvanes, they rock, cause a lot of wounds and move like the wind ^.^

Wyches take a while to get to grips with. I went down to throne of skulls a few weeks ago and had a unit of 5 haywire wyches in a venom. Pretty much every practice game I played they were complete and utter fail. Very disappointed, and would have swapped them for another unit if I had one to take. Then on day 1 of the tournament they went through a dreadnought, 5 killa kans and a maulerfiend, and survived every game to boot. Instant convert.

Their best use is in small squads to kill vehicles (60 points nets you 5 girls with haywires, simple suicide squad) - if you want it to do damage in combat then a hekatrix with venom blade is pretty much a must-buy; worthwhile running them 10 strong in a raider, or 9 so you can add a character.

Skye26 wrote:

Also if your looking to expand your army with new units i strongly recommend some reaver jetbikes with upgraded bladvanes, they rock, cause a lot of wounds and move like the wind ^.^

Thanks for the recommendation skye. I really wish I liked the models for the jetbikes. I got into DE because I really like the Venom model. I saw that thing and I was like "Damn it!! there goes a weeks pay!!" lol

I just really don't like the jetbike models. I may proxy a few just to see if the effects warrent the purchas of models I dont care for. lol


Or maybe I will models some "counts as" models for the jet bikes.....