Beast Master Pack -- positioning

Hi Members,

I'm getting back into 40K after a few years away (many local stores closed during the recession) so bare with me if my questions are simple or obvious.

Say I'm using a unit of 4 beast Masters, a Clawed fiend, 2 razor flocks and 10 Khemarae.

They're moving across the table and taking fire. Should I be leading with the Fiend and the flocks because they're more able to absorb wounds?

I'm a little fuzzy on would alocation!!! I remember playing a Space Wolf Guy (previous edition) and it came down to Lelith/wyches against Wolf Lord with 3 wounds and some troops (1 wound guys) and he took 2 wounds on the Lord before letting the troops start dying?

Can someone clear up the wound distribution rules for me AND the best way to align the BM pack?

Also, what should the one BM I can upgrade be armed with? SH? PW? AGonizer?

Thanks in advance

Sandy

Short version wounds are allocated to the closest model. This allows for wound shenanigans like previous editions with less control. Example: a unit of beasts with flocks on the exterior all around takes 4 wounds from the right then takes 4 wounds from the left. No model would be removed but 2 flocks would each have 4 wounds. If you are able then rotate these out of closest proximity to save their attacks.
Cover is determined on a model by model basis.

On beast packs khymera really alleviate the positioning thing. Basically put them all out front and the other models behind while they try to hug cover. I havent used the fiend and probably wont this edition, my suggestion is drop him for more flocks because you really need to bend over backwards to get them to function properly with majority toughness 5 at which point grots are better.

Ive been running different beast pack variations and the one im most consistantly pleased with is all flocks. Here positioning and cover are far more important but in return you get wounds that cost less than 4 pts each and have cover saves. If not and considering ID wounds at worst ive lost a 15 pt model.

All khymera is totally viable, as is all flocks and mixed as well, just depends on your intent for the unit(s).

Hope that helped.

The codex says Khemarae get a 4 invulenable save. That's means "all the time" not just when in combat like wyches.

So you're saying it is better to have them (1 wound) in front rather than the flocks (8 wounds before one is removed?

Generally yes because you want the flocks to be alive for close combat rending attacks. If you are not facing any STR 6 or better shooting then you can fairly safely keep the flocks out front. Even then it is usually better to keep the Khemarae up front because of the Invulnerable save. (Which is all the time).

I generally run a fiend or khymera out front for either the high toughness with 4 woundson the fiend or the invul save on the one wound khymera. The razorwing flocks instant die on anything strength six or higher, so the five wounds go to waste. That is why I put them in the second rank in CC if possible.

Cover is critical for this unit. Adding the baron helps by giving them stealth.

I actually prefer to have Beastmasters in my front ranks, counting on the cover save as the primary defense. Then, as needed, I use Look Out Sir to draw wounds back to Beasts that are better able to absorb them. Sometimes I allow a Razorwing flock up towards the front, as long as I can keep it 'equal distance' between it and a Beastmaster for the purpose of wound allocation - allowing me to more reliably toss bolter wounds and the like onto the Razorwing, while using the Beastmaster to absorb lascannons/missiles/that ilk that I then feed back into the rest of the squad as needed. If I was running a Clawed Fiend I'd probably intentionally try to get a few wounds on him.

Hi Guys,
Well one of the points of this pack is that if it draws too much heavy fire, then it reduces the shooting on other units. And with a little luck, these guys could be in combat by the second turn and have only one round of fire directed at them.

I'm planning on 4 BM with agon, 10 K, 2 flocks and a fiend for 258 points.

I mean with the invulnerable saves the Khem have and the multiple wounds the Fiend and flocks have, this units should be able to get across the board. Maybe having a Talos nearby moving along side will also cause the opponents to wonder what to do.

Thats a good basis for a pack although paying 52 pts for a T3 fiend is not that great id drop him and if nothing else invest in 2 more flocks for only +42 pts.

Regarding drawing fire, if your goal is to draw anti tank the pack you've built discourages that.

As thor stated using the BMs as pseudo khymera is good especially if you run all flocks like I often do since the unit encourages AT fire and the BMs can eat such fire which tends to be low volume for the most part. Its funny watching someone send their anti tank into a cheap pack then going to ground and shrugging all of it.

Sandy Death wrote:

I'm planning on 4 BM with agon, 10 K, 2 flocks and a fiend for 258 points.

It's seems like a waste paying 20pts for one agoniser attack (two on the charge), on a WS4 model.

Yes,
Good point about the Agonizer. I'll drop it.

The Fiend is Toughness 5, not 3. And cost 40 points - not 52. And you know, the fiend is a nice looking guy who paints up well. Sometimes I go with just the fun of it rather than the most points efficency.

Other thing, off subject is I don't like the new Talos. Too fragile. No, I don't mean in 40K fighting ability. I mean as a physical model.
I like the older talos models. Let me explain. If I throw a new talos at the wall- it shatters. If I throw an older edition Talos at the wall it makes a dent in the wall.

Forgot to mention the agonizer, good catch.

If going for fun cool, I like the fiend model and abilities. My comment on T3 was majority toughness of the unit and cost is 40 + 12 for BM 'tax'. Anyway carry on..

Yeah you need a 5th 4th beastmaster for the Fiend.

Nah,

beastmaster 1: 5 Ks
beastmaster 2: 5 Ks
beastmaster 3: 2 flocks
beastmaster 4: fiend

I agree that when I am setting up for the charge I like to have the BMs in a position to use the shooting phase splinter pods, but even with a 5+ save, they die quick like everything we have. Cover is critical and then hope overwatch doesn't kill everything. Too many things that ignore cover now Try to stay out of LOS as much as possible.

Didn't think about running a talos beside them...hmmmm