750 point list for critique

Archon
- venom blade
- agoniser
- shadow field
- ghost plate armour

Haemonculus
- Venom Blade
- Stinger Pistol

3x Grotesques
- Liquifier Gun
-- Raider
--- Disintegrator Cannon
--- Torment Grenade Launcher
--- Grisly Trophies

2 squads of 10 Kabalities
- Splinter cannon
-- Raider
-- Disintegrator Cannon
-- Splinter Racks
-- Night Shield
-- Flicker Field

Bang on 750 points.

Here's my justification for each unit with a pending game against either Nids or Tau...

Archon: for the stat line and upgrades. Venom blade for units of gants, agoniser for MC's. GPA on top of the SF as I have a really nasty habit of rolling a 1 on the first instance of needing to take an armour save for him!

Haemonculus: for the bonus pain token to buff my Archon and grotesques. Venom blade & stinger pistol as I had 10 points left over so I chose to buff his abilities a little

Grotesques: purely because I've just converted 3 models that I'm desperate to field! Added strength and toughness will give some extra punch in CC, particularly useful if I face off against Tau to tie up the expected large units of Fire Warriors.

The above 3 "units" will go together in the same Raider. I've given this Raider GT's and TGL's to reduce my opponents combat effectiveness, and to increase the chance of them failing a Ld check so I can run them down.

Warriors: No justification needed here I expect, they're the best troops choice we have!

Raiders: Disintegrator cannons for the extra shots. I won't see much (if any) heavy armour to need a dark lance - guaranteed. The guy I'm against will take number of shots to bring him down. Splinter racks are self explanatory, never leave home without 'em. Same with the night shields. Bugger all effectiveness against Tau though I'll take them on the off chance. If nothing else it'll reduce their rapid fire range. Flicker Fields because I don't want to jink. I don't have my rulebook to hand though pretty sure my occupants suffer a shooting penalty if I jink over using a flicker field.

I had wondered about using 3 scourges with nothing more than a shard carbine each, though fell to using the Haemy instead as I can see his buff being more helpful by increasing my Archon & Grotesques effectiveness.

So there are, that's it from the wall of text. What do you think?

I really think you're wasting points on both the trophies and TGL - if either of those come into play it's a small miracle, also, versus Tau and Nids either that squad hould stomp the opposition or get mauled themselves, so I'm not sure why you need those minor buffs.

Stinger Pistol might be one of the most useless upgrades out there. You're clearly running that unit for assault purposes - I would either finish kitting out the Haem for assault, or just hand him a liquifier instead and have him stay on the boat or just drift along to fry mobs prior to charges.

A Huskblade paired with the Furious Charge you get should serve you as well or better than the Aggie+V/Blade combo - just saying. Also, against most MCs, the V.Blade is better than the Aggie - so I'd at least consider that.

The Ghost Plate Armor is pretty meaningless to my mind - if you're fighting swarms then you should be directing hits onto Grots, and if you're fighting MCs then a failed invulnerable save is probably an ID for your Archon, so what's the point? Those points could be used elsewhere.

Thoughts,
Thor.

Hi Thor,

Thanks for the reply.

So what would you recommend in place of the TGL, GT & stinger? That's I htink 15 points free, 35 if I remove the venom blade and agoniser from my archon. That could pay for a huskblade, though would I get such a benefit by doing so?

I'd like to keep the GPA as I have an incredible habit of rolling 1s on my SF saves. One alternative I had considered is to take drugs instead in the hope of getting a strength buff, as the more wounds I put out reduces the number that come back, and therefore the less chance of me failing my SF save. There's only a 1/6 chance of getting that though, hence why I went for GPA.

The other alternative is to use that 10 points to give my Haemy a liquifier.

One thing I will say is that my Archon & his guard would only go after troops squads. MC's would be dealt with by my Kabalites, who would themselves gang up 2 on 1.

My next question crosses over in to tactics; I'm still pretty new to the gaming side of the hobby & would like to confirm a couple of points with you or anyone else here that is happy to help me out:

What's the max range my vehicles can move without impacting the passengers shooting?

What's the max range my vehicles can move so the passengers can still disembark and assault?

I've not taken a Flicker Field on my Archons raider. Can I jink and still disembark? Or do I get a better cover save than I would with a jink if moving flat out?

Thanks for your time.

AD

You essentially have 3 units. Unlucky with alpha strike and you are dead. in fact, you barely have to be unlucky, 3 boats are quite easily downed t1 unless you can get out of LOS, especially true vs Tau.

And the reason you are packing lightly? Upgrades. So much points into upgrades. Taking first list

Archon and Heamy both double equipped. trim some fat.

Heamy is 50p naked that could most likely be of better use as the use here is just 1 token for grots giving 1str on charge. that will give you furious charge sure but 50p for 1str on charge for 3 units, 4 if Archon uses ago?

Grot raider: Trophies and TGL, trim it

Warrior raiders: Triiiiiim the fat! NS contradict Racks (NS is mainly usefull 30+'' away and NS needs to be at 24''), at 750 there shouldnt be too much ignore cover and the jinx saves are as good and free if this is the case.

trimming the suggested and reshuffling i would do this:

Arch + Vblade + Sfield 95
3x grots in stock raider with Dissie
2x 5 Warriors in Venom with extra Cannon
1x 10 Warriors with SC in Raider with Dissie
1x Ravager 3x DL

750 exactly.

Thats 5 units, more AT, more Dakkadakka

Actually, thats 745, have fun with 5p

Wow that's a seriously bare bones list... completely different to anything I've ever fielded though maybe that's not a bad thing.

My only counter is that I don't own a ravager. Could bring a razor wing or blasterborn squad to the party. Alternatively I could do true born with dark lances in cover somewhere. Perhaps with a hex-monculus?

Ok, so I've revised my list and welcome your comments:

Archon
- venom blade
- shadow field

3x Grotesques (with the Archon)
- liquifier gun
- Raider
-- dark lance

5x warriors
- venom
-- extra cannon

5x warriors
- venom
-- extra cannon

5x warriors
- venom
-- extra cannon

10x warriors
- Raider
-- dark lance

I have barely any AT, though knowing my opponent I'm very unlikely to need it, having only ever seen him field a single devilfish at low point games, he leaves the hammerheads at home unless we're going in at about 1500. He's more of Farsight bomb kinda guy, though as I said before, he really wants to field his nids so I'm not too worried.

Any thoughts at all guys? Anything I should swap in?

Honestly, you've already made the main comment yourself; you lack AT. If you're not concerned by that then all well and good. It's a solid list and should do well, especially against 'nids.

If I were running it my only worry is that it might just be a bit dull to play with, but then I don't really do competitive. If you're playing this on a small board then I'd swap a warrior-venom for a Talos with liquifier, just for laughs, on a big board, I'd probably consider working in some reserve Reavers, for harassment and linebreaker because those Venoms will be going down fast..
Doing either of those wouldn't necessarily make it a better list from a competitive point, but I think it might be more fun..

The following is a small board 750 list I've been toying around with. It is basically at exactly the opposite end of the spectrum to yours, I'm not advising it as a particularly good list, but supplying it for contrast:

Haemonculus
- Liquifier

3 Grotesques
- Liquifier
- DL Raider

5 Wyches
- HWG
- Dual Cannon Venom

3 Wracks
- Dual Cannon Venom

3 Wracks
- Dual Cannon Venom

Talos
- Liquifier

Talos
- Liquifier

This is designed to be pretty unforgiving, both to me and to my opponent, but hopefully that makes for a bit more fun.. In terms of units on the ground, I still have your three venoms worth of poison, but I'm down to one dark lance (read: no dark lances). To balance that I have two Talos to provide another 12 splinter shots, liquifier goodness and some serious cc damage. The Heam and the Grots are basically a more mobile liquifier platform that can survive a bit of pounding when they get shot out of the sky and the wyches are there to worry any AV14 that might pop up in a spectacular act of self sacrifice..

As I said at the top, your list is pretty solid (lack of AT aside) but hopefully this has given you an insight into a different perspective..

Quote :

I have barely any AT, though knowing my opponent I'm very unlikely to need it, having only ever seen him field a single devilfish at low point games, he leaves the hammerheads at home unless we're going in at about 1500. He's more of Farsight bomb kinda guy, though as I said before, he really wants to field his nids so I'm not too worried.

If you're worried about AT, you could swap a warrior squad for a haywire wych squad.

Just a thought.

Cheers all, do nids have any av in their lists??

Well the list performed perfectly, winning 6-1 in game 1, and total decimation in game 2, wiping every damned bug off the board.

Hilights were in the planet strike game, where a fairly uneventful bombardment (against me) was followed by a total failure on deep strike rolls. No one on the board for turn 1 so I win lol.

Best part was losing my dark lance to his bombardment and tank shocking the mawlok in to hiding hahaha

Grotesques didn't see much action as it made more sense to shoot than assault, though they did shrug off 2 or 3 hits from the bombardment

Looking forward to the next one now

We played on, though he had a very weak list by any ones standards (not being cocky, it just was with no synergy and too much spent on monsters).

How did you manage to tank shock? And even if it would have been legal wouldn't it have been quite risky?

Hey man, your second list looks a lot better than your original list, I hope you like it! I feel bad that nobody's answered your rules queries, and I'm not sure if you've figured it out now or not.

Ardath Dei wrote:

What's the max range my vehicles can move without impacting the passengers shooting?

It isn't plainly stated in the rules, but it's 6"

Ardath Dei wrote:

What's the max range my vehicles can move so the passengers can still disembark and assault?

6" and the passengers must disembark within 2" of the vehicle

Ardath Dei wrote:

I've not taken a Flicker Field on my Archons raider.  Can I jink and still disembark?  Or do I get a better cover save than I would with a jink if moving flat out?

Jinking isn't an "action" on non-flyer vehicles so if you move your vehicles then you get a 5+ cover save for free. This is why a lot of people recommend dropping the Flickerfields, but the Flickerfields still has uses such as on turn 1 before you get to move or against weapons which ignore cover.

Also DE vehicles aren't tanks and thus can't tank shock unless they buy shock prows.

It used to be true that Night Shields and Splinter Racks were auto-include, but this isn't true in 6th editon. Use Night Shields if you plan to deploy your Warriors on foot and shoot the Raider at max range and use Splinter Ranks if you plan to have the Warriors embarked all game. I play mine naked because I deploy my Warriors in cover and keep my Raiders out of the way. If the opponent wants to waste their turn shooting at a Raider instead of something valuable then I'm fine with that!

When you grow your army you'll probably consider sticking some equipment back on. Thor is absolutely correct about the Ghostplate Armour: 1) you're going to allocate most shooting to your grots, 2) you have a 2++ until you fail a save, 3) when you do fail a save, you're probably already dead to ID or volume of hits. The minor bonus to save isn't going to do very much in most games and those points could be better spent anywhere else. Also Husk Blades are dirty against Monstrous Creatures, ignoring saves and killing outright.

Sorry for the delayed replies, I've been on holiday. So here we go.

Vasara wrote:

How did you manage to tank shock? And even if it would have been legal wouldn't it have been quite risky?

Is it not possible at all without a shock prow? I had no idea! *Rules Noob*

As for how risky it would have been had it been legal, there was literally nothing else it could have done as the weapon had been blown off and I was playing defense in this game, so any transportable units were actually hold up in bastions.

fuhrmaaj wrote:

Hey man, your second list looks a lot better than your original list, I hope you like it! I feel bad that nobody's answered your rules queries, and I'm not sure if you've figured it out now or not.

Ardath Dei wrote:

What's the max range my vehicles can move without impacting the passengers shooting?

It isn't plainly stated in the rules, but it's 6"

Ardath Dei wrote:

What's the max range my vehicles can move so the passengers can still disembark and assault?

6" and the passengers must disembark within 2" of the vehicle

Ardath Dei wrote:

I've not taken a Flicker Field on my Archons raider.  Can I jink and still disembark?  Or do I get a better cover save than I would with a jink if moving flat out?

Jinking isn't an "action" on non-flyer vehicles so if you move your vehicles then you get a 5+ cover save for free. This is why a lot of people recommend dropping the Flickerfields, but the Flickerfields still has uses such as on turn 1 before you get to move or against weapons which ignore cover.

Also DE vehicles aren't tanks and thus can't tank shock unless they buy shock prows.

It used to be true that Night Shields and Splinter Racks were auto-include, but this isn't true in 6th editon. Use Night Shields if you plan to deploy your Warriors on foot and shoot the Raider at max range and use Splinter Ranks if you plan to have the Warriors embarked all game. I play mine naked because I deploy my Warriors in cover and keep my Raiders out of the way. If the opponent wants to waste their turn shooting at a Raider instead of something valuable then I'm fine with that!

When you grow your army you'll probably consider sticking some equipment back on. Thor is absolutely correct about the Ghostplate Armour: 1) you're going to allocate most shooting to your grots, 2) you have a 2++ until you fail a save, 3) when you do fail a save, you're probably already dead to ID or volume of hits. The minor bonus to save isn't going to do very much in most games and those points could be better spent anywhere else. Also Husk Blades are dirty against Monstrous Creatures, ignoring saves and killing outright.

Really appreciate you having gone through all those questions. Seems pretty stupid that one of the fastest armies in the game, fluffwise, it's actually so slow in game play!