Dealing with orks

I would assume venom spam is good, but at 2k what would be our beat options

Volume of poison is very strong with it being AP 5, especially at 36". I would also assume that monoscythe/necrotoxin missiles would also be very strong

Are you looking to play "cheese ball" or friendly army?

Venom spam is good against a greentide and Nob Bikers. Personally, I think having a few good assault units is wise because if you can deny an Orkish charge, then you can really put the heat on them. Target priority is also big, i.e., kill Lootas.

Yep, you definitely want to drop the hammer on lootas. They can really make a mess of things, including our flyers due to their low armor and frankly silly (in other words, Orky) amount of shots. Most of the ork players I've ran into don't seem to mind going to ground or snap firing either, because the difference between BS2 and BS1 just doesn't feel as huge to them That said taking a razorwing to deal with them can end up being counter-intuitive. As said poison is great, especially against nob bikers but don't forget lances to deal with those pesky battlewagons. Blaster squads just won't cut it at that range. I also find we don't have a super good answer to a lot of the ork combat tropes. MANz have the wounds to out-tank wyches, boyz blobs can be pretty over-whelming, and the 20 man scorcha unit is...something haha. What dark eldar really aren't afraid of are kan walls and bikers, because of haywire and poison respectively.

Yeah he is a former dark eldar player and has around 7000 points in orks available to him. And this is a campaign game so friendly but not friendly at the same time. The object is definitely to win as you would a tournament but we aren't as insane about rules lawyering as in a tourney, we use a little common sense another words. I have played orks twice before, first game I conceded by turn 2 as I had been pretty much all but wiped. 2nd game I learned my lesson and parked all of my 36" weaponry on top of buildings and terrain to stay away from the multitudes of trucks. I still lost but not by much. I don't feel we have any CC units that can stand up to them due to high toughness and insane amount of attacks, AP1 double strength hits, and FNP that my opponent is notoriously good at making. So yeah I'm kind of at a loss. Mostly becuz their trucks move so fast. Any unit advice would be greatly appreciated.

Against boyz blobs I would use lots of poison fire from warriors or venoms.

For trucks I would use dark lances from ravagers.

doomseer11b wrote:

..... 7000 points in orks available to him. .....  

7000 points in orks?!?!?!  

That must be an insanely huge army!

agosyb wrote:

Yep, you definitely want to drop the hammer on lootas. They can really make a mess of things, including our flyers due to their low armor and frankly silly (in other words, Orky) amount of shots. Most of the ork players I've ran into don't seem to mind going to ground or snap firing either, because the difference between BS2 and BS1 just doesn't feel as huge to them That said taking a razorwing to deal with them can end up being counter-intuitive. As said poison is great, especially against nob bikers but don't forget lances to deal with those pesky battlewagons. Blaster squads just won't cut it at that range. I also find we don't have a super good answer to a lot of the ork combat tropes. MANz have the wounds to out-tank wyches, boyz blobs can be pretty over-whelming, and the 20 man scorcha unit is...something haha. What dark eldar really aren't afraid of are kan walls and bikers, because of haywire and poison respectively.

Why would taking a Razorwing Jetfighter be counter intuitive?

I think flyers are counter intuitive because the orks have so many shots at BS2 that it doesn't matter to orks to be BS1. They will shoot and prolly glance our flyers to death. And I appreciate the replies but I do understand the fundamentals behind our army in that our venoms shoot troops and our ravagers shoot trucks. I was wondering if anyone had experience that would be useful and or tactica that could be useful against orks. IE are cult lists good, coven..... Etc? I would assume cult lists aren't bad maybe a mix of kabalite and wych. Anyway, thanks again.

A Mono Cult list would be bad - Wyches are good against elite assault units, not against giant hordes.

If he's running a Trukk based army though he's playing with a weak Ork list.
If ou want specific tactics beyond 'shoot Venoms at boyz and Lances at Trukks' then I'd probably like to see an idea of his list and what you would bring to face it. Because if you're losing to Trukk Orks then I think you probably don't have enough long range darkmatter shots in your list.

In the case of orks, where you want to make them pay heavily for every inch they advance forward, I reckon a focus on increasing the volume of shots could be beneficial. I'd swap lances for disintegrators on my ravager. Orks can't deal with AP2 and if he's running trucks, then dissies could be more favourable for busting their ramshackle hulls. Boyz can't hurt the Talos. If I went t/l splinter cannons or T/L Haywire blasters and T/L liquefier guns, I reckon the Talos would be a right pain. We can bring bigger blobs of warriors for more dakka to whittle down the ork advance.

20 Warriors with splinter rifles and cannons...Perhaps this is one of those rare instances where we should spend the points to deploy an "Agony" Defense Line?

Denying orks the charge, like Dark_Kindred says, can be very useful. Whittle them down then charge them before they charge you. It's their Furious Charge strength of four and the extra attack that will really put the hurt on you, and if he plays a Trukk list he will NEED to charge. On the smaller mobs, whittle them down after wrecking the trukks then charge in to seal the deal. Hellions with their Hit and Run would be very helpful for this, as would anything that can tote a liquifier gun. Don't charge where you can get charged by another unit though, or against something you're not sure you can beat in one turn. The Razorwing with Necrotoxin missiles should be gold. If he has a Big Mek with force field, make him your number one priority. If he's playing an ork trukk list and has that guy, he is the heart and soul of the army. Small mobs need some sort of save to ensure they actually see combat, and if you take that away, they're toast. Lootas also need to die very quickly, so use terrain to your advantage until you can line up at least a couple of Venoms on a squad. If he starts getting close and you're feeling like you're about to be overwhelmed, cut your losses and run. Fly and turbo boost straight over their heads to reposition - enhanced aethersails will really maximise your chances of getting further away. You can be on the other side of the board one turn before they were about to start disembarking, then turning around and shooting them again in the next turn whilst they chase you.

I feel dirty now, orks are my other (larger) army, and were my first!

Mr Believer wrote:

I feel dirty now, orks are my other (larger) army, and were my first!

Me too, but I don't mind giving advice against them, because Orks never lose, see?

Thor665 wrote:

Me too, but I don't mind giving advice against them, because Orks never lose, see?

If we win, we win, if we die, we die, so it don't count as beat. If we runs away, we can always come back for annuver go, see? Classic orky logic. Worryingly similar to my own...

My absolute favorite quote for Orks still remains the reasoned tactica of the famed Ork Strategist Rotgrub;

Get 'em boyz! Dakka dakka dakka! WAAAGH! THE ORKS! WAAAGH!

So the general consensus is, I need to study my opponent more. Not necessarily the list writing, more my target priority. I only have 2 ravagers currently model wise. So this is an issue I need to be concerned with in every game I play. I have all but won this campaign pretty much, so I haven't done bad but these orks are harder to deal with than I expected. My lists usually consist of both ravagers, 1 squad of haywire witches, wracks, reavers, 3 man splinterborn squads, warriors in venoms. It works very well with other armies. Orks trukks just move so fast and hit so hard. I had to resort to hiding parking my vehicles on top of buildings or terrain.

Alright, I have a practical example which I will be facing soon:

1k Ork army
HQ:
Big-Mek with KFF (Going with the 3x20 Shootas troops normally)

Troops:
3x20 Shootas (pushing or objective holders)
1x10 Gretchen (back objective holders)

Heavy:
10 Lootas, inside a FW Squiggoth
2x3 Cannons with 5 Gretchens each manning them
1 Dakkajet

In our small meta we've had this list beat a chimera wall and CD soul grinder+horrors/flamers/screamers.

And now it's up to me, 1k Dark Eldar.

Edit: forgot the Dakkajet and edited the number of lootas to 10.

@Doomseer - do you have any lances besides the Ravagers? The Ravagers alone should be killing 2 Trukks a turn, what other long range anti-mech tools do you have? If the answer is 'none' I think I have found your issue.

@crion - that Ork list doesn't make sense. If it's the Big Squiggoth then he is 180 points shy of 1,000 (maybe he has some Nobs and other upgrades?) and also has an illegal amount of Lootas in the Squiggoth as it can only carry 10.

If it's the Gargantuan Squiggoth then he is about 400 points over 1,000.

If it's just the Big Squiggoth then it should die very easily to splinter fire. I would kill it first and the Lootas second. Depending on your list this really should be doable in one turn - use some lances on the Squiggoth too if you have them, and definitely save splinter fire for the Lootas - lances will do fine killing the squiggoth, but you'll want lots of dakka to kill the Lootas.

At that point it's just a matter of consistantly shooting the Boyz mob that has the KFF in it until that is dead. His max range will be 24" yours should be 36+" so you should easily manage 2 additional turns of shooting while he's trying to run you down.

Frankly, when he gets close, if you just move flat out as far away from him as possible, it should be quite difficult for him to ever get a bead on you.

Send assault elements against the Lobbas/Gretchin as you need.
I honestly think most competitive mech DE lists will eat that Ork list for breakfast - let me know if you need more help on that one. I'm glad to clarify or describe the tactics better if you need, or to assess your list.

The Cannons are of no worry to you.

I can bring 2 ravagers with lances that i normally do.  I have notoriously HORRIBLE dice roll with lances.  seriously.... its ridiculous.  I recently built a list that mainly consisted of venoms, ravagers, haywired wyches (i dont like also, cuz it makes my venoms kamakaze vehicles) and kabalite warriors all with a blaster.  I dont like kabalites in a venom with a blaster for the reason that to use them, or to "get my points back" (which i dont necessarily believe in, units that dont KILL something are also good distraction units) must be within 18" to use them which makes my venoms vulnerable.  However, i try and mitigate it with stationary splinterborn.  here is my current list at 2k with some changes to the wyches:

HAMEY- LG with wracks in a raider

BARON

TRUEBORN- 3 man squad with 2 spllinter cannons and a dark lance
TRUEBORN- 3 man splinter cannons (stationary dedictated venom, venom will be empty)

WYCHES- 10 man with hydra gauntlets hekatrix with VB  RAIDER NIGHT SHIELDS
WYCHES- 10 man with shardnet and impaler hekatrix with VB  RIADER NIGHT SHIELDS
WRACKS- 9 man with LG RAIDER no upgrades
KABALITE WARRIORS- 5 man in venom with blaster
KABALITE WARRIORS- 5 man in venom with blaster
KABALITE WARRIORS- 5 man in venom with blaster
HELLIONS- 14 man squad

REAVERS- 9 man with 3 heat lances

RAVAGER- NIGHT SHIELDS LANCES
RAVAGER- NIGHT SHIELDS LANCES

i appreciate all the input fellow archons. I dont normally play orks, like i said.

I don't like your S.Cannon/Lance combo build on that Trueborn squad.
Your list seems a bit assault heavy and shooting light, but still workable.

Here is Ork Target Priority in a nutshell for DE.

1. Lootas
2. Transports
3. Anything else.

If you are having trouble with a Trukk list I submit you're feeling the pinch of running a rather minimal amount of darklight in general, and a tiny amount of lances in particular. Still, your turns should be fairly simple;

Turn 1 - Ravagers and Raiders fire lances at Trukks.
Venoms fire slinter weaponry at Lootas, and then at whatever is outside of now wrecked Trukks.

Ork player will rush towards you, worst case you should have only a few Venoms in range of his ladz - a good Venom to have closest is the empty one. Optimally you should be able to avoid being in charge range of any of the boyz. This might be a bit harder if you have second turn, but you still ought to be able to minimize the number of units that can be assaulted, and don't bunch up to allow multi-assault of vehicles.

Turn 2 - Pull your units back away from the Ork lines - keep shooting Trukks with Lances. Keep lurking back about 30+ inches from the Orks. Pull back towards a single corner of the board.

Ork Player will keep moving towards you.

Turn 3 - Ork Player probably has you boxed in a bit now, you will have two choices - shoot Trukks and assault/flamer the units that were inside. Do this if he is weakened. If he is not weak, then move your entire army flat out to the opposite corner of your deployment zone.

Ork player will call you cheesy and move towards you.

Turn 4 - Repeat Turn 2.

And that is, in a nutshell, anti-Ork strategy.
Wyches and Hellions should be held back as counter charge units. Orks do well on the assault - they do not do well being assaulted. Your Hellion squad could easily handle a full Trukk boyz mob with little problem on its own. The Wych squads could easily handle a semi-wounded one. Double Liquifiers from the Wracks/Haem plus a charge also should be able to beat up any full strength Trukk Mob.

You warriors hide in Venoms going pew-pew if the enemy is close.

The only time to use Blasters is if one Ork Trukk is too far ahead and by itself, then you can move up a couple of Warrior Venoms, pop it with Blasters, and then execute the Orks with Warrior rifle fire + The Venoms if needed.

I honestly think Trukk Orks is one of the weakest Ork builds out there,a nd your list, though not a hardcore DE list, has more than enough tools to rip it up.

Just kill the Lootas asap - Lootas are a point and win unit versus DE, they'll pop a vehicle a turn per unit of Lootas if left unmolested.

@ doomseer 11b

You can only take 2 splintercannons in a trueborn squad not 3

Taffy10 wrote:

@ doomseer 11b

You can only take 2 splintercannons in a trueborn squad not 3

first of all awesome pic.  spawn is such an under rated comic hero.  2nd i know this, i said a minimum 3 man squad with splintercannons, assuming people reading knew you can only bring 2 a squad.  I appreciate the catch though.  

and thor, i know im lance light.  i cant afford  more ravagers right now.  and i dont like duel assigning units either (trueborn) but i feel i dont really have a choice with the lack of fundage for more models.

I had a fun game vs Orks last night. My list was:

Lelith Hesperax
1 Haemonculus
1 Haemonculus Ancient

8 wracks
4 blaster trueborn in venom w/ dual cannons
4 blaster trueborn in venom w/ dual cannons
5 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons & 3 shardcarbines in venom w/ dual cannons

10 warriors in raider with NS, disi cannon, racks
10 warriors in raider with NS, disi cannon, racks
8 wyches in raider with NS, disi cannon, enhanced Aethersails

Ravager with NS, 3 DL
Talos with TL liquifier
Voidraven Bomber with NS/flicker & 4 monoscythe missiles.


I couldn't tell you what his list was as I have no idea when it comes to orks but it had a fair few big shootas(or whatever you call them), 2 transports with a load of greenskins in and some big gun thing.

I basically just held back with most of my army and let him come towards me, hammer and anvil deployment so I had the advantage. I deployed right at the front of my deployment zone and sprayed his troops on the ground with splinter fire and his vehicles in lance fire. I'll write up a proper battle report soon but I won in turn 4 by tabling him..

Knowing what you're facing, I'd have smaller wych squads and larger Warrior ones in Raiders if you can, and less wyches generally. You don't really want your tarpit getting tarpitted, which will happen against orks! Ten warriors in a Raider with splinter racks should mince units of boys. Like Thor says, your Hellions are guaranteed (unless the dice REALLY hate you) to wipe out a mob of trukk boyz. With the Baron they'll have thirty poisoned shots - that alone will probably wipe out the unit, but be careful not to leave them open to the charge. It might be more viable to not shoot, charge the unit then hit and run away from it, especially if it's the one with the big mek and you have a stunclaw. The special wargear big meks are just about the only ork HQs that can't hold their own in combat, so dragging him away from those who need his save could be hilarious!