1500 pts Duke's Raid

There's an upcoming 1500 pts tournament I'm looking to attend. I'll be facing alot of marine players, one or two IG, possibly another DE or Ork.

Here's my Duke's Raid for the purpouse. What's the verdict?

Quote :

Duke Sliscus
150

5 Incubi
Venom (2 splintercannons)
175

4 Kabalite Trueborn
2 Shardcarbine, 2 Splintercannon
Venom (2 splintercannon)
143

10 Wyches
Hekatrix (Agoniser), Shardnet and Impaler
Haywire Grenades
Raider (Darklance, Flickerfield)
222

10 Wyches
Hekatrix (Agoniser), Shardnet and Impaler
Haywire Grenades
Raider (Darklance, Flickerfield)
222

10 Wyches
Hekatrix (agoniser), Shardnet and Impaler
Haywire Grenades
Raider (Darklance, Flickerfield)
222

6 Reaver Jetbikes
2 heatlances
156

Ravager (Flickerfield)
115

Ravager (Flickerfield)
115

1500 pts total

The idea is pretty straight foreward. Passive play the first turn, soften up the transports/bigger mobs. Hug cover, and go for a massive across the board charge in turn 2 or 3. TB's and venoms are used to soften up squads, Wyches tie them down while Incubi strides in for the kills. By tying potential Ignore Armoursave attacks in 2b2 with wyches, I should be able to extend the Incubi's survivability.

I like this list alot

Very similar to my list i've posted and no one has commented which must be good!

Something i would consider is that mathmatically the 10 wyches may be too many i been playing with the maths and 8 seem to be around the best so you wipe out the enemy in their turn.

If you dropped the wyches down to 8 in total you would gain yourself 72 points

Also i'd look at dropping the incubi to 4 so you'd gain 22 points there.

If you then dropped the Reavers you could get some more troops in there with

5 Warriors
1 Blaster
Venom 2x Splinter Cannon
125 pts

Do that twice and you have loads more scoring? Not sure how it would work but you woult gain 2 more scoring units and some real considerable killing power.

As i feel the reavers on't have a masive use as you've already got 9 dark lances in the list and also you would then have 4 venoms with 2 splinter cannons putting out 48 poison shots per turn also

Wow.
While I would certainly pick smaller Wych squads and different/none FA (note - I don't quite "get" jetbikers yet, prefere more shooting-point efficient Scourges) this is certainly nice list as it stands.

What I've found, about bikes, is that their bladevanes do alot more damage to unchallanged units than a unit of scourges at equal points cost. And the heatlances are for killing power. Haywire blasters on a scourge is awesome for getting crew shaken/stunned on gunplatforms, but they very rarely outright kill something, wich Heat Lances with their better than avrage chance of getting a penetrating, aswell as +1 on the result table, excell at.

A thought entered my mind. Dropping each wych squad down to 8 is all well and fine, though I haven't really had much problem of them wiping enemy units yet... but they'd probably score an even result between 8 and 10. By also dropping Incubi to 4, I could stick a Hemi in that venom with them. FNP on incubi from the start is nice. I'll skim the ideas tonight.

Check out my list on here i've used a raider for the incubi to give the FNP with the Haemi

I just think that the maths doesn't show a big improvement from 8/10 and the extra costs give you something to play with.

I put the example of an extra 2 units for scoring, but i think that could be used anywhere 250 points is a load

50 for the heamy leaves 200 you could fit in another squad of wyches

Food for thought...

After some deliberation, and some adjusted miscalculations pointswise (like counting 1 pt/model for Haywire Grenades instead of 2pt/model >_>) This is what I'm left with.
I've scrapped the Reavers, wich I'm still alittle queesy about, because I like them, and they do alright, and added a 4th Wych unit. I had to drop the Incubi to 22 to fit the 1500 mark.

Quote :

Duke Sliscus
150

4 Incubi
Venom (2 splintercannons)
153

4 Kabalite Trueborn
2 Shardcarbine, 2 Splintercannon
Venom (2 splintercannon)
143

8 Wyches
Hekatrix (Agoniser), Shardnet and Impaler
Haywire Grenades
Raider (Darklance, Flickerfield)
206

8 Wyches
Hekatrix (Agoniser), Shardnet and Impaler
Haywire Grenades
Raider (Darklance, Flickerfield)
206

8 Wyches
Hekatrix (agoniser), Shardnet and Impaler
Haywire Grenades
Raider (Darklance, Flickerfield)
206

8 Wyches
Hekatrix (Agoniser), Shardnet and Impaler
Haywire Grenades
Raider (Darklance, Flickerfield)
206

Ravager (Flickerfield)
115

Ravager (Flickerfield)
115

1500 pts total

I'll give this a testgame, and see how well the Incubi handle themselves, so far they've let me down in the two games I've run them, although, the first time, they wiped a 10 man squad of IG, but the powersworded seargent killed 2 incubis back. The second time, they got charged by Furious Charging Black Templars Assault Termies, and while they did kill 3 termies, the incubi got wiped.

Both cases, of course, I've myself to blame. I'm anxious to see what they can do for me, if I don't screw up.

One thing that struck me though, is that for the same pointscost as 5 incubi in a Venom, I can get 4 Trueborn with Blasters in a Venom.

Worth mentioning, this list contains 15 killpoints, all of wich easilly taken down in their own way... And I'm not that strong on objective holding. Grabbing, though, I excell at.

Honestly i would consider dropping the Incubi if they aren't working for you as really do you need another assault based unit?

You do have 32 Wyches going nuts including the 4 hekatrix's with their agonisers....

Possibly get a 3 Trueborn with Blastersquad or another Ravager for some more anti tank.

Otherwise i like this list alot...

I just prefer the look of the warriors as models

Having played yet another game, with the Incubi doing butt all (except drawing alot of fire, wich is good I suppose) I've decided to look elsewhere for my packing power.

My reasoning behind Incubi, is that Wyches can take alot of CC, but they don't really outwight win the combats. Incubi where supposed to do that, seeing as they can't, another approach would be to hurt enemy squads enough so that Wyches can handle what's left. This needs more shots. Here's a new list I intend to play around with.

Quote :

Duke Sliscus
150

4 Kabalite Trueborn
2 Shardcarbine, 2 Splintercannon
Venom (2 splintercannon, Nightshields)
153

5 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster
Venom (2 splintercannons, Nightshields, Grizly Trophies)
140

5 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster
Venom (2 splintercannons, Nightshields, Grizly Trophies)
140

9 Wyches
Hekatrix (Agoniser), Shardnet and Impaler
Haywire Grenades
Raider (Darklance, Flickerfield, Nightshields)
228

9 Wyches
Hekatrix (Agoniser), Shardnet and Impaler
Haywire Grenades
Raider (Darklance, Flickerfield, Nightshields)
228

9 Wyches
Hekatrix (agoniser), Shardnet and Impaler
Haywire Grenades
Raider (Darklance, Flickerfield, Nightshields)
228

Ravager (Flickerfield)
115

Ravager (Flickerfield)
115

1497 pts total

I decided to go for 9 wyches instead of 8, for hold fast purpouses. With 8, 2 deaths means an LD check for shooting, and 4 deaths means they can't rally. With 9, the numbers are 3 and 5.

My tactics would generally consist of Ravs for long range support, simple and straight foreward. The warriors would try, when they can, to lend their lances in support of breaking open transports where the raiders and ravs fail, other than that, the venoms and their passangers are for softening opponents up in prelude to a Wych Assault.

I could do that, but right of the bat, I don't really understand why I would want to. I've enough AT as it is, the only weakness is I can really pick up on is the lack of punching CC units. Still, I'll play a few games, and keep your suggestion in mind.

Tried the list against a CSM player and a SW player, both solid wins. I'm happy with the way it's performing, but I've yet to try it against an all-mech list. As it stands, and considering the amount of mech most often fielded around here, I find 11 darklight weapons to suffice quite well.

I like the lists that you have put together very much(to the point that I might be suffering from my army list ADD again). Dropping the Incubi seems like the smart play as that many Wyche units can really hold their own. Major style points for going with SC/SC Trueborn and not Blasterborn. I'd be curious how this list would do against Parking Lot IG Mech Vets.

I like your first list the most out of the versions you've put up. Dropping the Wyches to smaller units is solid, although I disagree with the notion of them possibly being too killy (I think ten is fine-if you are up against something 8 will rout, oh well-two Wyches isn't exactly a major difference except where you can squeeze those points into getting something more).

Personally, I would drop the Incubi and some extra stuff and get another squad of Reavers. I certainly wouldn't take out a squad of Reavers for more AI in the form of 5 man Venom taxation squads. They also have synergy with the Duke more than the Warriors.

If you dropped (from the first list) the Incubi, the Shardnets, Shardcarbines, the three Agonisers (switch to Venom Blades), and a Wych from each squad you'd be getting close to a fourth Wych squad and a second unit of Reavers. I'll take the much harder hitting AT of the melta and another Wych squad over those things every time, but that is somewhat just personal preference.

Right now, the only one around here who can field a proper parking lot mech IG list, is me.... I'm trying to find someone who'll borrow my guards for a game to test them out.

Played a couple of games against marines, mostly objective based, and I've had great success. Got a game scheduled against infantry heavy guards on saturday, and a couple of mystery games on friday.

Really digging the list.

Have you ever made use of the Duke's Deep Striking rule? Or do you just use him for the CD's and 3+ poison?

At first I kinda liked your list but now I'm not so sure. Initially I thought each unit had a clearly defined role but now theyseem to be jack of all trades.

Baron Tordeck is correct, you don't have enough darklght weapons at this level, furthermore some of the choices you have are unreliable and dilute the strength of the unit they are in. Single darklight weapons are a lottery, avoid them where possible. With a single lance/blaster you only have a 33% chance of penetrating a AV 11 or above vehicle. Against AV 12 its 22% chance, meanwhile the rest of the units weapons are standing about doing nothing.
Personally I would drop the blasters from the warrior squads, the nightshields from the wych raiders they are not needed (flat out 1st turn to cover, 12" 2nd turn then assault), drop a couple of wyches a squad and then get some blasterborn in there. I'd even be tempted to drop a full wych squad as well to get the blasterborn in.

Probably about 400 points saved so at least a couple of squads of 4 blasterborn in venoms, and convert your splinter cannon trueborn to 4 blasterborn and you now have 20 darklight weapons, on 7 platforms with 5 venoms, 2 squads of 8 wyches with haywire grenades for dreads etc. With that amount of splinter weapons and the wyches for HtH you don't need anything else.

just ran it through Army Builder

Duke
3 x 4 Blaster born with venoms
2 x 5 warriors with venoms
2 x 8 wych inc Hek with VB, raider with FF
2 Ravager, with FF

1499 points

Just a couple of thoughts

Kenny, I'm sure the suggested list there is very competitive, but personally, I don't like it. My experience with both darklight weapons and wyches contradict your idea of them. It could be just my lucky dice, or some such, but I've run a fair amount of games with the list so far, the one game I've lost, I lost due to lack of Anti infantry power.... Was up against a riddiculous amount of orc boys... Around here, you don't really see that many mechanized lists. As for wyches, when facing as much infantry as I generally do, I want to keep them at atleast 9, preferably 10, simply for the extra wounds I'll suffer once I'm countercharged.

I am considering dropping the blaster in the warrior squads, but really, that little gun generally pulls it's weight well enough. I don't often care about the splinterrifles in the venom, the squad is mostly for scoring purpouses. I have a unit of 4 blasterwielding trueborn built, but I don't know wether or not I'll play with it. I don't know why, I just don't like the idea of blasterborn. Maybe at 1750 or 2000, but I have alot of other stuff I'd rather field, like reavers and scourges.

I'm giving some thought towards dropping the blasters, and the grizly trophies, and upping my wychsquads to 10 man each. I'm also looking at the possibility of fielding a unit of reavers. Possibly by rolling 9 man wychsquads, raiders and venoms without Nightshields, and loosing the shardnets Should be able to get me a few bikes.

No worries buddy.
I seem to face a never ending tide of mech these days, along with FnP bubbles and terminators all over the place. Darklight weapons are my friend, don't see too many hordes, apart from my mate who runs nids, so sounds like a different environment your in.
If it's anti-infantry your after how about a razorwing?

I'm actually giving alot of thought tiwards fielding a razorwing with SC and dual DC's. I've seen it in action, and it just wiped the board. Plus, it's a fantastic model.

I would go with 2xDL on planes. Otherwise Your list will lack of proper long range AT.
18" range combined with unfair Fast Transports rules is one reason why I like Raider+Shredder over Venom+Blaster. Killing stuff shouldn't be problem, staying alive is. Ask any veteran Ork player