1500pt D/Eldar lists

Okay I am sorta of back; but any who here is my Dark Eldar / Eldar list at 1500 pts. I'll hopefully be posting some battle reviews once I finish putting some models together and find some opponents.

Baron
Duke Sliscus

Hellions x10
Hellions x10: Helliarch Phantasm Grenade launcher

Reaver Jetbikes x9: 3 Heatlances
Ravager: ns,

Spiritseer
Wraithblades ( or Wraith Guard)

Wyches x5: Haywire Gernades Venom: Splinter Cannon, NS
Scourges x6: 2 Blasters Solarite

Wyches, Ravager, and Reaver Jetbikes are there to take down any Vehicles from the sides.
The Spiritseer, Wraithblades and the Duke are there to strut there way down the board acting like a big target. The Baron, two squad's of Hellions and the Scourge are there to deep strike behind the enemy for harassment. The scourge can also double as tank hunting but there mainly there for 2+ killing.

That's my list and basic strategy I'll let everyone know how it works when I can get some games in. Comments and Critique are welcome.

I'm not going to comment on the choices because I'm interested in seeing what it does, but a couple little things:

1) You wrote that the wych squad has 4 models. Did you mean to include a Hekatrix or is it 5 models?

2) I'm not sure what kind of mileage you'll get out of the NS and FF on any vehicle when you are likely planning to get into the enemy's faces so they won't work on the Venom and the enemy should have more on their mind than a backfield Ravager.

3) The Duke doesn't have a squad of Warriors or Trueborns to enhance. It looks like he was taken for his contraband rule, but surely you could find space for a few trueborns somewhere.

4) Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Baron can join the Hellions in reserve so you have to roll for the Baron and each squad of Hellions to come on separately. This could leave you in a position where the Baron doesn't come on when the Hellions do so I'm wondering what your plan is if that happens.

I'm really looking forward to your batreps though so I'll look out for this list in the future!

1: Yea that might be a screw up its not a perfectly written list I'll fix it. For some reason I thought that Wyches can be a min unit of 4.

2: FF might be taken off cause of the wych screw up.

3: I could drop the scouge for some trueborn or not but I have this problem with units and transport since they can't shoot at full BS if moving more than 6". To me that feels like a waste which is why I opted for Hellions since they can move 12" shoot 18" every turn. i might think about it though.

4: According to the reserve rules you roll one die for the IC and Unit if the IC joined the unit in reserves.

Okay after not playing any games and much talk I have come down to two different lists I'll be trying out based on how they perform ( if I ever get a game in.)

Baron Sathonyx
Hellions x10
Hellions x10 Helliarch PGL
Ravager
Reaver x9: 3 Heatlances
Haemonculus Ancient: Hex Rifle
5x wyches w/ haywire, raider
5x wyches w/ haywire, raider
Spiritseer
Wraithblades: Ghost Axe & Force field
2 War Walkers: 4 brightlances
1499
This is the list I plan on playing right now.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Baron Sathonyx
Hellions x10
Hellions x10 Helliarch PGL
Ravager
Ravager
Reaver x9: 3 Heatlances
Spiritseer
Wraithbladesx5: Ghost Axe & Force field
3 War Walkers: 6 brightlances
10x Dire Avengers: Exarch, Twinlinked, Battle Fortune
1499

This is the list I plan to use if there are more Flyiers around or tank heavie lists at my FLGS

okay so I got in a game against a all foot Imperial Guard army. So here are some things I have learned with the list above.(the first list of my post right above)

1. I have no way to deal with that mass amount of infantry. It's just way to much and poisoned weapons don't exactly help a ton against Guard.

2. Giant blobs of guard, Dawn of War, makes it hard to maneuver things around. It also makes Deep striking harder to pull off.

3. Footslogging wraithblades worked out quite well. The unit didn't fully get wiped till turn 6 and are a beast in close combat even with the low amount of attacks. I think they are really under estimated but further games will confirm that.

4. Reaver Jetbikes perform no matter what. They are just that good.

5. I should have been more aggressive against my enemy and should have ignored the snap shooting for charging.

6. Against a no vehicle all foot list D/eldar can tank quite well (with above average rolls). I was looking at 100+ shots everyround and wasn't tabled to turn 6 (which I would have one if the game ended on turn 5)

7.wychs didn't perform anything and now im thinking I have bad luck with them. On a up note the raiders worked awesome as giant shields for a few turns but ultimately didn't do a whole lot

8. I need to be more aggressive.

9. My spiritseer didn't do to much because I forgot about spiritmark and his psycher powers just gave my wraithblades +1 str and +3" to running which I didn't do to much of. I think he would work better if I had the Dire Avengers in.

So With all that I am now thinking of what changes to make while still keeping it towards an Take all comers list /competitive.

I am thinking of adding a unit of Dire avengers (Like in the second list of my post above) this will help the wraithbalds and allow them to be more aggressive and add a nice shooting damage output.

I defiantly want to add in a third War Walker.

I'll be moving my Hellions into one 20man group with the baron and they will still be in reserves but come in as back up so they don't get hit by any template weapons turn one.

I am on the fence of Hame's since he did absolutely nothing but kill on guard and give his paintoken to the reaver jetkbikes. I think I might take a 2 hamies w/ Liquifier guns, and 5 wracks w/ liquefier gun in a raider for some anti horde shooting and pain token shenanigans.

Advice?

I was going to say I can't see what the Haemonculus Ancient brings to the list. There doesn't seem to be anywhere for him to go where he won't slow someone down one way or another as he's not fleet. If you just want him for the pain token he might as well be a regular Haemonculus, but the Reavers could get a pain token from their drug roll anyway. If you do want a Haemonculus, wracks are a good choice - I use them quite often, and putting wounds on big nasty things with the little guys is just funny  Liquifier guns are great too, just don't rely on them. Half the time they should ignore power armour, but you can't bank on it.

Dire Avengers are a really good choice, their shooting combined with their abilities and the exarch makes them as good or better than some elite choices in other armies, and they've got a real sting in the tail with bladestorming shuriken weaponry. They'd probably be a better choice than wracks if I'm honest - whilst both can wound anything, Dire Avengers can keep their distance doing it, and bring a Wave Serpent to the table. With a shimmershield toting Exarch and a 4+ armour save, they're not too shabby at objective holding either.

On the subject of Wraithguard, I'm interested to see that you've tried that setup and it's worked for you. It's not impossible to have them march implacably up the table and actually get into combat then, although horde guard might not be the best test of their abilities  D-scythes would have been horrendous against guardsmen on foot if you'd got there with them, and they'd be my choice for TAC, but to each their own  

The vast amount of infantry would have been a problem for you because to get close enough to use the bulk of your anti infantry shooting (the Hellions), you have to get in range of all those lasguns. With their orders, presumably. Not good! Hellions shouldn't be relied on to make up the anti infantry shooting for your army - whilst they do put out a lot of shots, they can't avoid the retaliatory fire very well, being quite difficult to hide. I'd consider swapping the Wych Raiders for Venoms if you're finding you're lacking in that department. Splinter rack Raiders with Warriors are also very good.

Twenty Hellions is a lot, and twenty with the Baron is a big chunk of points to hold in reserve, especially if they don't come on until turn three or four. The size of this squad means they'll rip through enemy units if they get there intact, comparable to Stormboyz but they get to go first. My thinking is that unless you're using really big terrain, you'll have probably five or six guys hanging out in the open in a squad of twenty, who'll get picked off. The squad can take more punishment due to its size, but they're only taking it in the first place because the size of the squad makes them easier targets. It's ultimately self defeating. Twelve to fifteen are still threatening, and will pump out plenty of shots before charging in to finish the survivors. Don't assume they have to be in reserve either, sometimes you might as well have everything on the board if there's good cover, no barrage weapons and deep strikers aren't an issue. The advice of "Go full reserve" in 5th edition lost me more games than I care to recount - know when and what to reserve. Reavers probably always should be though, there's not really any need to start them on the board.

They're my thoughts anyway

I will be playing this list which adds some much needed troop removal to the army this Thursday hopefully.

Baron Sathonyx
Hellions x10
Hellions x10 Helliarch PGL
Ravager ff
Reaver x9: 3 Heatlances


Spiritseer
Wraithbladesx5: Ghost Axe & Force field
2 War Walkers:  brightlances

2x hamies 2 Venom Blade, 2 Liquifier 2 dark gates
5x Wracks  Liquifier gun Acothyst Venomblade
Raider FF

1499


Depending how this works I will  probably drop all the Hamies and wracks for Dire avengers and a razorwing Fighter. Will update after the fight against space marines.

So I lost again, but this is more towards bad dice. Failed a lot of leadership tests.

Baron and Hellions: Still trying to figure out how to use them effectively.

Ravager: Did well but I probably wasn't moving as I should with it.

Spiritseer and Wraithblades: Well they where munched turn 1 but that's due to me thinking they can tank an entire army of Dark Angel's shooting.

War Walkers: Worked but it took them two turns to kill one Space marine skimmer thing. Thanks dice.

coven Stuff: Obliterated almost a whole unit of Dark Angels but sucked in Close Combat but that was due to dark gate which is fun.

Its hard to say what needs real changing when most of the issues where player mistakes and bad dice rolls. Any ideas besides playing better.

Oh his list is most of the stuff from the vengeance box and some bad a** leader guy that does a lot.

With the distribution of firepower across your list, some units might struggle to finish off a target - another War Walker with bright lances might well be a better investment than the three Reavers you have to include just to take one heat lance, for example. You get an extra lance with double the range, for eight points less than you do by taking three more Reavers with a heat lance (I think). A second Ravager is great too, but I don't know how you'd accommodate it.

The Dark Gate is quite good, it's true. That's why you can only take one per army  Might need to tweak that equipment... I'm still not sure about the second haemonculus either. He gives the wracks another pain token, but there's only five of them. I know the codex says that with enough pain tokens "Even a humble unit of wracks becomes a terrifying proposition" or something similar, but it's not really true. They're better, yes, and can be really annoying, but the amount of times it'll be worth giving them three pain tokens to start and paying the haemonculus tax for the privilege probably won't make it worth it overall. If there were more bodies in the unit the investment might work more in their favour.

Technically the fastest troops in your list are Wracks. If you're allying in Eldar anyway, Windriders might be worth considering. The Wraithblades with the Spiritseer to make them troops are 230 points and don't have a transport. Against the majority of opponents, they are too easy to ignore or wipe out with a large blast. Their toughness is great, but battle cannons still wound them on 2s and ignore their armour, just as if they were basic marines. They really need a transport, even more than their D-cannon toting iteration do. You might be forced to bite the bullet and get a Wave Serpent for them to make them consistently effective. I say bite the bullet because you'd have to drop something to make way for it, but Wave Serpents are amazing now, so it's not such a bad thing. Either that or convince opponents to play at 1750 points level...

I feel this list should overall work out better. It keeps the core of what I am trying to work and what has worked.

Baron
10 x Hellions
10 x Hellions Helliarch PGL
9 x Reavers 3 Heat Lances
5 x Incubi Klaivex Onslaught Venom w/ Splinter cannon

Spiritseer
5 x Wraithguard D-scythes
Wave serpent
3x War Walkers all Brightlances (or would brightlance scatter laser work better? same cost)

1499

Or

Baron
10 x Hellions
10 x Hellions Helliarch PGL
9 x Reavers 3 Heat Lances
Ravager
Cronos Parasite Engine w/ Spirit Vortex

Spiritseer
5 x Wraithguard D-scythes
Wave serpent
3x War Walkers all Brightlances (or would brightlance scatter laser work better? same cost)

1499

Thoughts?

So after another game of getting completely tabled again (many mistakes and really really really bad dice rolling) I think im going to give up on wraiths in general. I cant seem to get them to do anything really. I will try to get back to getting them to work but its just turned into the fact they cost to much pts wise.

On a positive note I have been getting better at Using the Hellions as a reserve mop up unit. More on them as I keep playing. So here is the list I will plan on playing next time which might be against eldar or Dark Eldar so that should be interesting.

Baron
10 x Hellions
10 x Hellions Helliarch PGL
9 x Reavers 3 Heat Lances Arena Champion
4x Trueborn 4 shredder Venom Splinter Cannon NS
4x Trueborn 4 shredder Venom Splinter Cannon NS

Spiritseer Falchos Wings
10x Dire Avengers Exarch twinlinked
3x Warwalkers 6 Brightlances Ghost Walk matrix

1500 pts

The only problem could be that I might not have enough anti tank fire power.

Hello there! Interesting list, and kinda like what I've been thinking of myself! (14 wraiths with spirit seer two talos pain engines, a cronos and wych venoms.) A couple of pointers though...
With the Warwalkers you may want to consider taking the SL/SC combo (Math hammer shows that it's the best option for killing infantry and light vehicles) as opposed to the dual brightlance build.

When taking allies I always take units that can do something that my main detachment can't bring. Dark elder can get darklances without much trouble but S6-7 shooting doesn't exist inside the codex (with the exception of the shredder, but really, you shouldn't be taking them..)

Another thing that elder bring is their tough troops (wraithgaurd/blades.) I'm sad to see that you keep having your wraith get creamed. I think the problem is that you keep trying to throw them at the enemy expecting them to survive anything, but in the end they are still only five guys. I'd suggest adding more to fill out their numbers to around 7-10. This gives you some bodies to absorb losses and still keep them a theat. It takes a lot of S6-7 shots to take them down, which is also the strength weapons that destroy our transports. If they use all of their mid strength shooting on your wraiths then your transports are not taking shots while if they shoot your transports those wraithguards with D-scythes are getting closer..

Hellions really aren't that good I'm afraid... I'd drop them for some wyches in venoms personally.

Bibitybopitybacon wrote:

Hello there! Interesting list, and kinda like what I've been thinking of myself! (14 wraiths with spirit seer two talos pain engines, a cronos and wych venoms.) A couple of pointers though...
With the Warwalkers you may want to consider taking the SL/SC combo (Math hammer shows that it's the best option for killing infantry and light vehicles) as opposed to the dual brightlance build.

Im trying to keep things as dedicated to one role. So my Jetbikes and Warwalkers are my anti Tank but I will admit I dont know how I feel about having the scatter laser bright lance combo I might give it a try at some point but I feel the more lance shots the better.

Bibitybopitybacon wrote:

When taking allies I always take units that can do something that my main detachment can't bring. Dark elder can get darklances without much trouble but S6-7 shooting doesn't exist inside the codex (with the exception of the shredder, but really, you shouldn't be taking them..)

noted but i want to test the shredder out with trueborn to kill off blobs of IG and what not.

Bibitybopitybacon wrote:

Another thing that elder bring is their tough troops (wraithgaurd/blades.) I'm sad to see that you keep having your wraith get creamed. I think the problem is that you keep trying to throw them at the enemy expecting them to survive anything, but in the end they are still only five guys. I'd suggest adding more to fill out their numbers to around 7-10. This gives you some bodies to absorb losses and still keep them a theat. It takes a lot of S6-7 shots to take them down, which is also the strength weapons that destroy our transports. If they use all of their mid strength shooting on your wraiths then your transports are not taking shots while if they shoot your transports those wraithguards with D-scythes are getting closer..

Hellions really aren't that good I'm afraid... I'd drop them for some wyches in venoms personally.

I just played a game last night with 10 wraithguard with d-scyths and due to bad rolls, bad movement, bad decisions, and poor placement the were dying to blast weapons from terminaters. so I am unsure. I really like them but im just going to shelf them for a little while till I finish magnetizing them.