To Sarge? Or not to Sarge?

Newbie looking to learn the ropes here.

I've only played 3 matches (2:1) with my sexy, speedy, terrifying, and beautiful new Dark Eldar Army, and have come to wonder;
Do you experts consider it worth the points to add the various Sergeant models to your units?

Is that 1 point boost to the leadership values and the extra attack worth 10+ points?

And if you do use them, do you give them nice toys? Or keep them cheap because they die as easily as the rest of our kin?

Please, rain your enlightened views down on my unworthy mon keigh head!
Cheers

I always take a Hekatrix and a Sybarite on my Wyches and Warriors. Statistically grisly trophies is a better option, but I often have my vehicles move off after deploying their troops to work in concert with my craftworld vehicles. I find the LD bonus invaluable as DE are fragile and you want them to hold the line.

As for special weapons I take them as well. I always take a venom blade or an agonizer on my Hekatrix, and always include a pair of hydra-gauntlets with my wyches. It gives them just enough punch to tarpit a unit for a turn or two then emerge on top. And a little bit of wargear goes a long way in a challenge as well. Eldar and DE are excellent in challenges due to their high initiative, and with poisoned weaponry or an agonizer it doesnt matter how tough they are.

I pretty much never take them. I tend to play a shooty army rather than an assaulting one, so the additional weaponry or ability to shield someone in a challenge isn't hugely useful.

It is probably more worth it with wyches than kabalites, since they will be (more likely) in CC, where the extra attack, LD-bonus and cheap venom blade will help more.

EDIT: Also, It is best used when you cant fit anymore people in a unit, like already 10 wyches in a raider (or 9 wyches and IC), since the sarge is usually the same cost as an extra head

For my style, not
There is a thread around that argues an upgraded succubus is cheaper and far better than the equivilant cost of hekatrix and wyches

Usually I don't bother with sergeants, other than in a unit wth a nasty HQ to take the challenges, but I have started to use Sybarites.

Now, some people consider Syberites to be a waste of points, but I have a list in which I made them useful. It consisted of a WWP, some nasty MC's and three squads of Kabalites coming out of the WWP. They fired their guns, and the next turn they assaulted the Chaos Marines that were closing in. Charging in gave me the extra attacks and let me decide what was going to die. My Sybarites had Venom Blades and made light work of all the power armour.

Admittedly, they were five man squads of Plague Marines, so they were fewer in number, but the amount of points my Warriors destroyed in CC was immense. This tactic isn't something I'd be competitive with, but for fun I take Sybarites.

I generally don't take them unless I'm running a fun or fluffy casual army. The reason being is that you take some good toys without having to take the sarge, though I have been reconsidering the sarge situation with the wyches because of the hella cheap PGL.

I'll only take a Hekatrix if i need the Agonizer/VB, other wise i do without.

Warriors don't need the sybarite.

Wyches depends on what you want to do with them, the hekatrix gives you access to a venom blade, PGL (invaluable if you plan on assaulting with them) and LD9.

Reavers, six or less don't bother with a champion. If your running 9 however he invaluable for LD9 and the venom blade he brings makes assaulting those backfiedl units more reliable.

Hellion, the heliarch is great as he has access to a 5pt power spear and hit and run.

Trueborn, they already have LD9 so don't need a Dracon.

Inccubi, the klaivex can absorb challenges so your archon can focusing on cutting down squads rather than wasting his killing power on squad leaders.

Grotesques, and aberration with venom blade gives the unit a large boost to damage output.

Okay, thats a simple question.

Good ones:

Hekatrix, Arena Champion, Syren.
They are good ones because bar +1A and +1Ld they offer unit unique changes via special gear, making units they are leading capable of doing something more. Naturally +1A helps more on an assault unit, challenges and all that.

Ok ones:
Klaivex, Abberation, Acothyst, Heliarch.
Those ones provide only what the squad already can do, only bringing some special ways of doing it. Most of the time it is effective to take more bodies then take them. Heliarch is there cause it is rare to see Hellions without Baron, and if Santy is there benefits of sarge is questionable.

Not ok ones:
Solarite, Dracon, Sybarite, Nightfiend. They bring nothing to what the unit will be doing on the table, bar +1 LD.

Im not high on LD grades for DE, because often when there are enough firepower concentrated on our units to cause moral checks, said units might go below combat ready level anyway. And where on assault unit that would matter, cause sarge themselfes can do lots of stuff on shooting units thats kinda not that hot.

Wait... what do wyches need PGL for? Dont they already have assault grenades?

I used to take them always, for the look of it as much as anything else, when I played with a few units, well kitted-out. That hasn't worked out so well for me since certain changes took place, so I've gradually started using 'many cheap units' instead, i.e., quantity over quality. If you take lots of small units and you add a Hekatrix, Sybarite, etc., to each one, it adds up quickly. So, no 'sergeant' for small units I think, but it depends.

Mngwa wrote:

Wait... what do wyches need PGL for? Dont they already have assault grenades?

I'm guessing for the cover save from defensive grenades when you assault from 8" away. A bit too iffy, IMO.

Barking Agatha wrote:

Mngwa wrote:

Wait... what do wyches need PGL for? Dont they already have assault grenades?

I'm guessing for the cover save from defensive grenades when you assault from 8" away. A bit too iffy, IMO.

Yea, i tried it for a while, just realized for myself that it wasn't saving my wyches that much more than them just being without. Though i did relish in the frustration of my opponents of always having a cover save for them.

The other benefit of the PGL is when it's paired with the wreckage from a destroyed raider/venom. If you just flat-out into your opponent's face then chances are you'll end up standing in wreckage next turn and be within 8" of your enemies. Then having a 4+ coversave is valuable, as the last thing you want to be doing is going to ground at that point; you may as well take the models off the table before you do that!

I agree, at max my wyches were on the ground maybe a single movement phase before hitting assaults. So under those circumstances PGLs arn't worth the points for me.

Timatron wrote:

If you just flat-out into your opponent's face then chances are you'll end up standing in wreckage next turn and be within 8" of your enemies.

In my experience, chances are you'll end up dead from the explosion. I almost never get a raider wrecked, only exploded, and wyches almost never survive it. One or two of them at the most.

How unlucky are you? lol

I'm a pretty big fan of the helliarch, a lot because I'm totally weird and run Baron with beasts and still bring some hellions. The pgl is obviously a must, but they actually get a venom blade for free, so imo a helliarch's about always worth it.

I used to love my agonizer sybarites getting the jump on people, but they don't do as hot these days. I like the leadership boost but in my experience I get more mileage out of the 5 point grisly trophies upgrades on the vehicles. Its a little more flexible and gets you about the same effect. A cheap hekatrix with venom blade isn't too bad if you have the points to spare, but personally I put those into night shields and prows and stuff first.

Timatron wrote:

How unlucky are you? lol

That pretty much matches up with my experience. My appalling dice rolls are fast becoming legendary amongst my group.

Barking Agatha wrote:

Timatron wrote:

If you just flat-out into your opponent's face then chances are you'll end up standing in wreckage next turn and be within 8" of your enemies.

In my experience, chances are you'll end up dead from the explosion. I almost never get a raider wrecked, only exploded, and wyches almost never survive it. One or two of them at the most.

Explosion still leaves a crater (Area terrain) so the same applies.

In fact, it leaves either a crater or scattered wreckage. I've built some Raider/Venom sized and shaped areas of scattered wreckage. It gives a 4+ if you're obscured by it, so that becomes a 3+ if you're within 8" with a PGL. I just used the crater example because that's more of a common sight.

Yeah our club ended up sticking with all explosions are craters, as it was weird having two options one which was worse (craters) and one which was better (wreckage). Who would ever take a crater when a wreckage is better?Usual inconsistent GW rules.

Aha! But to have scattered wreckage you have to make it yourself, so it's a reward for effort! I used the extra prows/sails and the passengers from the Raider kits and added pieces of sprue and plasticard then stuck it all to a piece of hardboard the size of a Raider, textured it and bingo!

Timatron wrote:

Aha! But to have scattered wreckage you have to make it yourself, so it's a reward for effort! I used the extra prows/sails and the passengers from the Raider kits and added pieces of sprue and plasticard then stuck it all to a piece of hardboard the size of a Raider, textured it and bingo!

Modelling for advantage

Mushkilla wrote:

Barking Agatha wrote:

Timatron wrote:

If you just flat-out into your opponent's face then chances are you'll end up standing in wreckage next turn and be within 8" of your enemies.

In my experience, chances are you'll end up dead from the explosion. I almost never get a raider wrecked, only exploded, and wyches almost never survive it. One or two of them at the most.

Explosion still leaves a crater (Area terrain) so the same applies.

No, because if they all die in the explosion, you just get a crater with no people in it.