Mandrakes...?

Around here competitive player use Eldar allies and our tournament consider that insquisition use the ally slot (thanks God)

Anyone interested in a Mandrake heavy force? I did a battle report on them. I like the Mandrakes from a gaming perspective. We seem to be more about the fluff of them on this thread, but they are pretty cool in game.

every time i field them (got my opponent waste the HELL LOUD OF SHOTS at them. I don`t know why is this happens, but every one tryin do kill them first.

So they just like sit in place... and thats all
Just saving lots of shots

Unorthodoxy, where've you got that batrep posted? Totally up for a read.

Played an 10000pt apocalypse game a couple weeks back, fielded my 10 mandrake models as mandrakes instead of my usual wracks. Infiltrated into his half of the board. My buddy fielding Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, and Dark Angels, knowing exactly what mandrakes are(not) capable of, ignored them.
He DS'ed Legion of the Damned with combi-plas, plasma gun and plasma cannon nearby aiming for my CSM Rhinos. Rhinos died to other shooting, so he opened up on mandrakes. Only lost 2 mandrakes to shooting. Next turn, I assaulted.
My remaining 8 mandrakes wiped the 5-man LoTD squad in one combat phase. Enter pain token stage left.
Next turn, he mostly ignored them again in favour of serious threats. They shot (no kills) and successfully charged a 5-man Ravenwing bike squad (losing 1 to overwatch). 7 remaining mandrakes stuck in and kept those bikes in CC for the remaining 2 turns of the game. That combat turned into a slapfight vs T5, I lost maybe 2 more models and only gained 1 kill.

So clearly they aren't ENTIRELY useless...

I feel like a lot of the time people lose sight of what they think a unit should do and what you can actually do with them. I know mandrakes are considered low tier but so are kroot. Having a Tau army I love my kroot. They are cheap, there are a lot of them, they have sniper and they can infiltrate. When I play them my intention is not for them to live but for me to have a hand up in board control and to get a lot of special rules for my buck. at 15 points a model having a 10 unit squad is a cheap price to pay for a) board control and b) a flexible unit that can be a thorn in the side. (put aside them taking a trueborn slot). Either someone shoots at them and they take quite a bit of dakka to get them out of the cover they should be in or, like Mr Carp said, they tie up units in CC and get pain tokens. When I make an army I look at what my synergy is and what I can do to keep them playing that way. I would field Mandrakes as a speed bump and board control from step 1. For 150 pts that's a very good price to pay for that tactical advantage. tied in with a beastpack your opponent has a very important decision to make, Whether they take out your venoms (my list) or the CC. Make no choice easy for your opponent. You kill the CC units? That is a lot of venom shots. You kill the venoms/warriors that's a lot of CC coming your way. How can you field a efficient army and how can you confuse your enemy, mind games work.

Here are my five cents.

I started playing with Mandrakes just because they were considered the worst investment in the Codex. And maxed out on them 10 strong always. And to top it off I would always outflank them. Since most laugh at outflanking. And to top it off I included a Haemonculus. Just to they at least could shoot a bit the turn they would show up.

They turned out to be my MVPs in every game! Amazing! With 5++ and FnP, and Stealth they can take a lot of abuse. The trick is not to field 5 or 7 or so. Thats when they are quite useless. They need the numbers. They rock vs Tau, shooting at Firewarriors with AP4! Or Eldar. They beat pretty much everything they assault. Riptides to Marines. It's just a matter of numbers. 30 attacks at S4 is not bad... Will even wear down Terminators.

I brough 20 to a tournament recently. Two ten man squads with a Haemonculus with a Venom Blade and Liquifier Gun each. One of them was my Warlord. I have not lost my warlord in a game ever outflanking him, and playing really aggressive!

They smack tanks with S4, shrug off Bolters that Rapid fire, which is DE nightmare otherwise... Flamers are no problem with a double 5+ save... Mandrakes rock. But they have to have a Haemonculus, they need FnP and unlocking their shooting is a must.

Just to be able to hang back with your raiders and venoms and line break with them is great. In 6th ed, bum rushing your opponent is too risky. Why lose half of your Raiders turn two?

DE performs best while using Night Shields and blasting your opponent and do late turns objective grabbing if you ask me.

The tournament went well. It was subjectively comped, thats why you see a lot of crappy unit selections... I got good comp and ended up on second place! Almost took first! There were about 100 players...

This was the list:

The Fast and the Fallen a la GothCon

Haemonculus: venom blade; liquifier gun.
Haemonculus: venom blade; liquifier gun.

10 Mandrakes: Nightfiend.
10 Mandrakes: Nightfiend.

6 Wyches: haywire grenades.
• Raider: night shields.

8 Wyches: Hekatrix (venom blade; phantasm grenade launcher); haywire grenades.
• Raider: night shields.

5 Wracks: Acothyst; liquifier gun.
• Raider: night shields.

5 Wracks: liquifier gun.
• Venom: splinter cannon; night shields.

7 Kabalite Warriors: shredder.
• Raider: retrofire jets.

3 Wracks

6 Reavers: Arena Champion (venom blade); 2× heat lance; cluster caltrops.

Ravager: 3× disintegrator cannon; night shields.
Talos Pain Engine: chain-flails.
Talos Pain Engine: chain-flails.

Army total 1747p

My local group has no issue with Stronghold Assault, partially because no one sees the point in getting the macrocannon.  That said, it does open up an interesting tactic for Mandrakes that I have had some luck with.  This is similar to what Squigmaster mentioned earlier in the thread.  

Have the mandrakes infiltrate into a bastion or imperial bunker outside of your deployment zone.  Where SA comes into play is that you take the Escape hatch upgrade to add a second, remote access point back into your deployment zone (preferably in cover, out of LOS of your opponent.  This will allow you to have a Haemonculus enter the fortification on Turn 1 and sharing the pain token and allowing them to fire on turn 1 (though they cannot leave the building until turn 2 since joining squads happen at the end of movement).  If you are using the bunker, than up to 8 Mandrakes can shoot out of the fire points which can be pretty annoying to an enemy.

EDIT: While it's rare, I have had them enter into CC once and have found them to be pretty decent. While T3 still sucks, being S4 at I5 is a huge plus for these guys. From a sheer CC standpoint, I would actually be more prone to take a unit of Mandrakes over a unit of Bloodbrides or Wyches simply for the S4. Now, I rarely take Wyches expecting them to be in CC (more suicidal anti-tank) but even so, I would probably rank Mandrakes higher than them for CC. The exception to this would be if wyches roll the +1S for drugs which isn't really dependable.

Laughingcarp wrote:

Unorthodoxy, where've you got that batrep posted? Totally up for a read.

Played an 10000pt apocalypse game a couple weeks back, fielded my 10 mandrake models as mandrakes instead of my usual wracks. Infiltrated into his half of the board. My buddy fielding Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, and Dark Angels, knowing exactly what mandrakes are(not) capable of, ignored them.
He DS'ed Legion of the Damned with combi-plas, plasma gun and plasma cannon nearby aiming for my CSM Rhinos. Rhinos died to other shooting, so he opened up on mandrakes. Only lost 2 mandrakes to shooting. Next turn, I assaulted.
My remaining 8 mandrakes wiped the 5-man LoTD squad in one combat phase. Enter pain token stage left.
Next turn, he mostly ignored them again in favour of serious threats. They shot (no kills) and successfully charged a 5-man Ravenwing bike squad (losing 1 to overwatch). 7 remaining mandrakes stuck in and kept those bikes in CC for the remaining 2 turns of the game. That combat turned into a slapfight vs T5, I lost maybe 2 more models and only gained 1 kill.

So clearly they aren't ENTIRELY useless...

http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2011/12/terror-based-dark-eldar-vs-tyranid.html

Also:


http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/07/blood-angels-vs-dark-eldar-battle-report.html

Cheers mate. I've definitely read that batrep before somewhere, Mandrakes doing awesomesauce at an unheard of level!
benmannen6, will be giving that list a try if you don't mind.
Unholyllama, that also sounds fantastically fun to try.

You're welcome

benmannen6 wrote:

Here are my five cents.

I started playing with Mandrakes just because they were considered the worst investment in the Codex. And maxed out on them 10 strong always. And to top it off I would always outflank them. Since most laugh at outflanking. And to top it off I included a Haemonculus. Just to they at least could shoot a bit the turn they would show up.

They turned out to be my MVPs in every game! Amazing! With 5++ and FnP, and Stealth they can take a lot of abuse. The trick is not to field 5 or 7 or so. Thats when they are quite useless. They need the numbers. They rock vs Tau, shooting at Firewarriors with AP4! Or Eldar. They beat pretty much everything they assault. Riptides to Marines. It's just a matter of numbers. 30 attacks at S4 is not bad... Will even wear down Terminators.

I brough 20 to a tournament recently. Two ten man squads with a Haemonculus with a Venom Blade and Liquifier Gun each. One of them was my Warlord. I have not lost my warlord in a game ever outflanking him, and playing really aggressive!

They smack tanks with S4, shrug off Bolters that Rapid fire, which is DE nightmare otherwise... Flamers are no problem with a double 5+ save... Mandrakes rock. But they have to have a Haemonculus, they need FnP and unlocking their shooting is a must.

Just to be able to hang back with your raiders and venoms and line break with them is great. In 6th ed, bum rushing your opponent is too risky. Why lose half of your Raiders turn two?

DE performs best while using Night Shields and blasting your opponent and do late turns objective grabbing if you ask me.

The tournament went well. It was subjectively comped, thats why you see a lot of crappy unit selections... I got good comp and ended up on second place! Almost took first! There were about 100 players...

This was the list:

The Fast and the Fallen a la GothCon

Haemonculus: venom blade; liquifier gun.
Haemonculus: venom blade; liquifier gun.

10 Mandrakes: Nightfiend.
10 Mandrakes: Nightfiend.

6 Wyches: haywire grenades.
• Raider: night shields.

8 Wyches: Hekatrix (venom blade; phantasm grenade launcher); haywire grenades.
• Raider: night shields.

5 Wracks: Acothyst; liquifier gun.
• Raider: night shields.

5 Wracks: liquifier gun.
• Venom: splinter cannon; night shields.

7 Kabalite Warriors: shredder.
• Raider: retrofire jets.

3 Wracks

6 Reavers: Arena Champion (venom blade); 2× heat lance; cluster caltrops.

Ravager: 3× disintegrator cannon; night shields.
Talos Pain Engine: chain-flails.
Talos Pain Engine: chain-flails.

Army total 1747p

That list really looks very interesting - could you please explain the role of the units? How do you handle flyers or Serpent Spams?

4 Raiders are the antitank here alongside the heatLances on the Reavers, but the Reavers are much less likely to get the chance than the Raiders against Mechspam.

The Talos can also tear the Spam up, but need a means to get there. As most mechspam doesn't usually move forward agressively, it comes down to whether or not the Talos can cross no mans land OOOOOR whether the Raiders can get lucky. Both could happen. I think I'd want a Haemonculus with a Webway Portal to make the Talos gambit a better one but thats not popular to do, so really that brings it back to the Raiders for reliablity.

Quote :

I started playing with Mandrakes just because they were considered the worst investment in the Codex. And maxed out on them 10 strong always. And to top it off I would always outflank them. Since most laugh at outflanking. And to top it off I included a Haemonculus. Just to they at least could shoot a bit the turn they would show up.

Can you Outflank with a Haemunculi?

Azdrubael wrote:

Can you Outflank with a Haemunculi?

Actually you can. Since 6th edition, it's enough to have at least one model with the special rule.
And it is obtained automatically with the infiltrator special rule.

[quote="Calaman"]

benmannen6 wrote:

That list really looks very interesting - could you please explain the role of the units? How do you handle flyers or Serpent Spams?

Well, it was tailored for a subjective comp tournament. So it's got some weaker units to give me better comp. But it actually has a lot of good synergy with a deep striking troop unit in a raider and two quite tough outflanking units, backed up by the rest of the army.

Flyers are usually not a problem, ppl normally only bring a single flyer and they get 2-3 turns of shoting  and thats it. So no big deal. I normally just ignore them. Two stand out: Baleflamer Heldrake and Flying Monstrous Creatures. The Heldrake I just have to live with and take random pot shots at with dark lances. FMC can be a big problem for DE, if the y land and start tearing up stuff in CC. Thats actually why I have 2 Talos with Twin Linked Splinter Cannons. That way I at least force a lot of grounding tests and poison is really nice against them. They have been really helpful dealing with those.

Reavers only slice, rarely shoots and sometimes assault, a little depending on what drugs they are on. Wracks score, and Wyches hang back and take pot shots with their transports. Mid to late game they move forward and assault those vehicles that have crossed the middle of the board. Haywires are great!

But it's the Ravager and Mandrakes that do most of the damage. Talos and Reavers do a bit too, but Mandrakes won me alost every game. As you can see I don't have much shooting, and not really much dependable close combat either. They have to team up on opponents...

Serpent Spam does not exist in these tournaments. You just can't play with more than two, and met had a single one. Two would be a problem. But Mandrakes and Wyches would have to try to sort them out

I've been thinking about just putting them in Reserve with a haemmy so they come on (outflanking!) with their Pain Token already up. I'd lose a turn, but I tend to play Reserve heavy armies anyway, so that is less of a concern for me.

I have been contemplating infiltrating a hemonculus with a min group of mandrakes, plop them 12" or 18" and drop a portal for my units to come out of

MFive wrote:

I have been contemplating infiltrating a hemonculus with a min group of mandrakes, plop them 12" or 18" and drop a portal for my units to come out of

This is not actually legal as you can't join an IC to a unit before it Infiltrates. This may (hopefully) change in 7e but for the moment it's a no-no.

Gotta be careful as there is a distinction between Infiltrate and Outflank. Haemie can do one but not the other.

As a portal delivery system it's too much of a waste due to the randomness of our DE reserves. However as a backfield, linebreaking, assaulting deep campers unit then yes

Due to the of witting of the rule I thought a ham can't join mandrakes before a game which would remove the option for infiltrate or outflank. While I probably won't play another game of sixth this would really irk me if I screwed it up the entire edition.

Outflanking is fine as the Haem joins the unit whilst in reserves. Infiltrating is out though as the only other way to join the unit is to deploy on the table in coherency with the unit. If you do that though you've already deployed so you can't then Infiltrate as Infiltrators set up after deployment.

HOWEVER, technically I believe the wording of the rules says that Infiltrators, regardless of whether they are using the Infiltrate rule or not, still deploy last. The wording is that units with Infiltrate deploy after normal deployment blah blah, so an IC can NEVER join them (unless it too is an Infiltrator).

Infiltrators always deploy last but as you're placing them in reserve that doesn't actually alter anything. There is a paragraph at the end of the rule about Independent Characters without the
Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment but again you're not deploying them so I don't see it makes any difference.

Count Adhemar wrote:

Infiltrators always deploy last but as you're placing them in reserve that doesn't actually alter anything. There is a paragraph at the end of the rule about Independent Characters without the
Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment but again you're not deploying them so I don't see it makes any difference.

I agree. It's not like you have to infiltrate, more like you can. So you can have them in reserve,
you can add a character model. And because a model with the infiltrator rule can outflank,
an added character model can do as well.

Now that 7th edition has dropped, I've noticed infiltrators are still allowed to infiltrate into buildings 12" away from enemy models, and that the Repel the Enemy USR on p.170 states that you're allowed to charge on the turn you disembark from a building, even if the building becomes destroyed.
Between that and the new wording of "First Turn" (Player that deploys first can CHOOSE to play first or second; if they choose first, opponent can seize.), mandrakes assaulting out of bastions or imperial bunkers or whatnot is a viable option.
Y'know, where viable = something you technically can do.
If you wanted to.

ICs now legitimately CANNOT join infiltrators at deployment at all (presuming they're deploying using the infiltrate rule), no argument. Only for Outflanking.